I've pointed this out before, but is there any real reason that the SMTIVA content is awkwardly jammed into the SMT4 nav? (Now with tabber involved even! What a mess!). SMTIVA isn't just an "expansion pack" or rerelease to IV the same way Persona 3 FES or something is, but a whole separate game sequel (more compatible to Eternal Punishment compared to Innocent Sin, to continue the Persona parallel). We should split the SMTIVA stuff into it's own template (maybe with its own table color, the same way IS and EP have different colors?)--Otherarrow (talk) 16:54, October 14, 2016 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and split off the templates. Feel free to clean up the SMTIVA one as you see fit!--Otherarrow (talk) 17:17, October 14, 2016 (UTC)
i presume the Apocalypse stuff was added on to the SMT4 navbox because it shares so many terms, locations, characters, etc, that - at least initially - a separate navbox would mostly have been a copy with a few things things here and there exclusive to it. i put tabs in there to make it less awkward and isolate the Apocalypse-specific stuff so that it would look better and be more obvious what was specific to it, and also so that it could easily be split later down the line. Apocalypse does have its own colors, at least for the stat templates, but the corresponding tables and everything else were not added to support it; at the very least it should've forwarded to SMT4's tables or been a direct copy of them so that tables and such could be created using "smt4a" so that if/when the tables were updated that would be the only thing needing to be changed instead of having to track down everywhere that needs to be updated. but yes, Apocalypse is a essentially sequel and should be listed separately; we don't have SMT1 and 'SMT2, IS and EP, or DDS1 and DDS2 intermixed. should the Horde and Challenge Quest pages be made completely separate or are they fine the way they are with tabview? imo either way is fine but having Horde at least completely separate might help to unclutter it, i dont think CQ matters either way but should probably be the same way as Horde and everything else for the sake of standardization. Tathra (talk) 17:57, October 14, 2016 (UTC)
I think we can have Challenge Quest as an overview and then separate "List of Challenge Quests in X" page. As for Horde, since it doubles as both a Race and demon(s), I think spiliting it would be more hassle than anything.--Otherarrow (talk) 18:46, October 14, 2016 (UTC)
As Tathra points out it was originally due to both games having so many cross over terms, locations, characters, etc. and originally the game was planned as an updated release with new cotent before being made into the game we see.JupiterKnight (talk) 19:01, October 14, 2016 (UTC)
The thing is, the earliest I've seen content from SMTIVA added to this template was after we already knew it would be its own thing, with Nanashi and Dagda and all that. As for sharing terms, locations, characters, etc...again, so did the Persona 2 games. My only guess is that whoever first added it either didn't want to or didn't know how to make a new template, then other people kept adding to it thinking this is how it should go. Ah well, it's not an issue now.--Otherarrow (talk) 20:18, October 14, 2016 (UTC)
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