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(Tsuchigumo vs. Gyuuki)
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::::I totally agree the main info pages should not be based on Atlus USA titles. I also don't think it's a good idea to make a wiki so narrow as to call it a North American English wiki. Even en.wikipedia is good enough for the UK and the US. And most of the world learns/use English as a second language. Why alienate your effort from the rest of the world. If it was "my" wiki I'd do everything I could to make it multilingual even. --[[User:Yksehtniycul|Yksehtniycul]] 21:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 
::::I totally agree the main info pages should not be based on Atlus USA titles. I also don't think it's a good idea to make a wiki so narrow as to call it a North American English wiki. Even en.wikipedia is good enough for the UK and the US. And most of the world learns/use English as a second language. Why alienate your effort from the rest of the world. If it was "my" wiki I'd do everything I could to make it multilingual even. --[[User:Yksehtniycul|Yksehtniycul]] 21:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
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:::::Haha, if it were ''my'' wiki I'd do the same. I've loved Megaten since playing Shin Megami Tensei way back in the day. I think it's unique in it's "Chaos vs. Law" and it's "Good and Evil are perspectives". I started working on this wiki because when I was playing one of the games, I found there wasn't as much of a wealth of information online as I thought there should be, especially since Megaten is the third of the "Three Great RPG Franchises". I wanted people who were introduced to Megaten via something like Persona 3 could go back and see how revolutionary the series was. I really don't dislike Atlus USA or their localizations. They came a long way since Revelations: Persona. But they're far from perfect and they've got some serious bad habits with game naming, so I don't really want to side with them in the case of a disagreement between their script and the source. When I said this before, I was called and Elitist Fanboy Prick by Bluer. I pretty much decided I'd wash my hands of the whole thing and leave. Unfortunately, my long list of Watched pages and my love for Megaten keeps drawing me back. But I've not been making any new pages. I feel Devil Summoner 2 is Soul Hackers, and I don't really want to type [[Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon]] 2000 times while trying to fill in more information about the game. [[User:SeventhEvening|SeventhEvening]] 21:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:39, June 25, 2009

Tsuchigumo vs. Gyuuki

I've never seen a case where a demons name has changed in a Japanese game... even when the names are clearly bad, once they're in a game they're stuck for time memorial.

Unless there is a direct name connection between Tsuchigumo and Gyuuki these are different devils. Gyuuki is Youjuu, and Tsuchigumo is Chirei apparently. Just because two devils look similar between games doesn't make them the same.

PS: I get really confused when I see devils called "Wilder" and stuff from the Atlus USA games. Is it possible to favor the traditional Japanese race names or put one or the other in parenthesis? The USA names are very wonky because most of the names don't translate into English naturally. I'd say the USA names should be in the parenthesis because they're so goofy... Youjuu (Wilder) for instance. That way at least you never switch conventions just because this game is newer (ie. localized) than some other one. --Yksehtniycul 12:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 

That's been what I wanted to do since the beginning in order to keep things more logical, clean and user friendly. Because, while the Japanese demons never change, the English version has demons like Preta who regularly becomes Gaki and then changes back. I was also in favor of siding with the Japanese titles since Atlus USA has a bad habit of tacking the word "Shin Megami Tensei" on front of every game they release. You can see the whole argument about it on Talk:Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon. It gets kinda stupid at points, and Blue pretty much can't be reasoned with. The whole thing soured my opinion of the wiki, which I used to enjoy working on, and even somewhat soured my enjoyment of Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon, so I pretty much just said "fuck it" and haven't really been back since. I have noticed several of your edits and posts on talk pages and I think you're definitely moving on the right track of getting everything accurate and clean. If you wanted to try to run against Blue's policy, I've got your back because it would mean returning to the policies we had before. Otherwise, he's going to want to side with the English localization no matter what. SeventhEvening 16:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, I'm cool with Bluer, and probably the last thing this wiki could use is drama. I think whoever is most committed to editing and staying with the wiki should have the last say. I've really no interest in editing for editing sake. I mostly have just been editing stuff that really bugs me. My editing ventures will probably slow to a halt eventually. As far as my talk edits go, I'm just trying to be helpful. Don't wanna butt any heads. I am worried about infighting though. It's especially problematic if a core editor ups and leaves... especially if editors have to clean up their editing style after the fact. But not being perfectly organized can also cause problems in the long run. It's best to sort everything out from the start. I do fear tying the wiki to Atlus USA is like stapling an expiration date to it. This is already better than the Megaten Haven wiki. I'd like to see it keep heading in a positive direction IMO --Yksehtniycul 16:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, I was pretty committed to the wiki, but I have real life to deal with as well, so I sometimes go missing. We had everything sorted and agreed on from the start, but suddenly, Bluer decided that he completely wanted to change it and side with Atlus USA on everything. It's already caused several problem, such as a user who added Devil Survivor to Shin Megami Tensei (Series) and things like that. It's downright confusing to have the words "Shin Megami Tensei" on the front of every article. Several other users agreed, but no one really wants to fight about it as bad as Bluer does. I really joined this project shortly after it was founded due to Megaten Haven's Wiki being hard to access and confusing because it didn't have enough organization. I've liked your edits so far, so keep up the good work. I'll keep putting my 2-cents in the talk pages, but it's unlikely that I come back to editing at this time. SeventhEvening 21:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
So I take it you're not making new pages atm? I know you're 2nd or 3rd top editor (checked the stats earlier) ...Bluer can't do everything alone, and whenever a project gets down to one person it tends to look like one man's insane task (not that it ever is by default, but it just looks bad)
I'm just making vanity edits, nothing more (well maybe some sanity edits... before I get in too much trouble)
There just aren't enough of us old timers active in the community any more. Megami Tensei lost its hipness when the games started to be localized. Before then it was a close-knit DIY community.
I totally agree the main info pages should not be based on Atlus USA titles. I also don't think it's a good idea to make a wiki so narrow as to call it a North American English wiki. Even en.wikipedia is good enough for the UK and the US. And most of the world learns/use English as a second language. Why alienate your effort from the rest of the world. If it was "my" wiki I'd do everything I could to make it multilingual even. --Yksehtniycul 21:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Haha, if it were my wiki I'd do the same. I've loved Megaten since playing Shin Megami Tensei way back in the day. I think it's unique in it's "Chaos vs. Law" and it's "Good and Evil are perspectives". I started working on this wiki because when I was playing one of the games, I found there wasn't as much of a wealth of information online as I thought there should be, especially since Megaten is the third of the "Three Great RPG Franchises". I wanted people who were introduced to Megaten via something like Persona 3 could go back and see how revolutionary the series was. I really don't dislike Atlus USA or their localizations. They came a long way since Revelations: Persona. But they're far from perfect and they've got some serious bad habits with game naming, so I don't really want to side with them in the case of a disagreement between their script and the source. When I said this before, I was called and Elitist Fanboy Prick by Bluer. I pretty much decided I'd wash my hands of the whole thing and leave. Unfortunately, my long list of Watched pages and my love for Megaten keeps drawing me back. But I've not been making any new pages. I feel Devil Summoner 2 is Soul Hackers, and I don't really want to type Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon 2000 times while trying to fill in more information about the game. SeventhEvening 21:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
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