Talk:Demi-fiend

Localization

Guys? Guys? How would you compare the localization of SMTIII:Nocturne? Is it up to par with the recent localization efforts by Atlus? ^BLUER一番 13:39, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

• Nocturne and DDS had the best localization ports IMO. No lousy VAs (Nocturne has little to none to nitpick on, Titania's "are you ready?" was okay, and the performances in the whole of DDS was pretty good), no stupid name changes (imagine Isamu being named Isaac... *shiver*), and did I mention no lousy VAs? Sorry, but the NA voice acting in P4 irked me so much that it wasn't even funny. I'd rather play the Japanese version because I know the language, and the VA performances were more convincing. Still, it's nothing compared to the total fiasco that was Revelations: Persona back in the PSOne days. Here's to a decent port on the PSP remake... MomoChan 14:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I see. These two are prominent titles in the series, at least in the English market. I haven't played the game, but would it be preferable to refer to the MC as Hito-Shura or the Demi-Fiend? ^BLUER一番 14:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

• Ah yes, the one little pickle. Hito-Shura sounds a bit more edgy. Demi-Fiend is all right, but kinda passe. Guess that's why it wasn't particularly used often within the game? MomoChan 14:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

IMHO I prefer Hito-Shura. While DDS and Nocturne's localization isn't BAD, I wouldn't say it's up to par with P3 or P4. Well, voice acting aside. Many enemy names are messed up or illogical, for no good reason Atlus changed the names of the tribes, etc. I was actually hoping the Chronicle Edition would be re-localized for US so that the demon names could be fixed and such. Additionally, from a logistical stand point, this article has been Hito-Shura for quite some time. It would require a lot of effort to make all Hito-Shura references into Demi-Fiend references. As it is now, it's not like anyone who wants to see it can't find it by just searching Demi-Fiend if they are not aware he's Hito-Shura. SeventhEvening 18:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought Nocturne's localization was great. The small voice acting it had was well done, and it was very appropriate for the atmosphere. The harsh demons didn't pull any punches in their dialogue, driving home that it was a very 'M' RPG. DDS/2 also had a solid localization, especially in the voice work. I don't have a problem with any of Atlus' recent localizations, really. They haven't done anything as bad as Persona 1 since, so they're doing just fine in my book. I could do without the honorifics in P3/P4(Nocturne sure didn't need them, and it took place in Japan), but that's a minor issue. The voice work in both was solid, shy of a few quirks with Aigis' VA. And even those were fixed in the FES dubbing.Cj iwakura

• The race name change wasn't a big thing IMO. "Jirae" irked me a little though. Is that supposed to mean anything, perchance? I'd rather they'd have kept "Chirei" intact. MomoChan 03:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

"Not Official"? "Placeholder"?

What is the deal here? There is nothing not official about the name "Demi-Fiend" or "Hito-Shura". It's really not a place holder. Even though you name the character what you choose, he's still called the "Demi-Fiend" or "Hito-Shura" by most characters. That is officially what the game's script calls him over half the time. Humans are about the only people in the game that call the protagonist by name, and several of them even call him "Hito-Shura" or "Demi-Fiend" by the end of the game. Then, he also appears in Avatar Tuner, where he is also called the Hito-Shura. Even though it's essentially his title, rather than his name, that bit at the top of the article makes it sound like we just pulled the name out of our ass. I think it's entirely unnecessary. SeventhEvening 18:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Should the article name not be "Protagonist (Nocturne)" anyway? --Yksehtniycul 13:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Why would we do that if he has a perfectly good name to call him by? We use "Protagonist" for characters who have no name to call them by in the game's canon. SeventhEvening 16:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Because he is supposed to be the player more or less. I've yet to play Nocturne (some of the characters just make me wanna throw up in my stomach) but Hito-shura looks like a pun on human/ashura, which would be a title. I know the games have never really tried to make the player feel like they're at home in the skin of the protagonist (though it isn't as hard in such a racially homogeneous culture)

I don't really care. Just thought it was a fair way to get around the disclaimer, and their is something to be said for consistency. Not as if a Hitoshura redirect would not suffice.--Yksehtniycul 18:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It really is a title, and a human/ashura pun is essentially it's origin. I don't like the look of having every page be "Protagonist" especially if there is some title or name that is more fitting for the character. For the protagonist in SMT, people (players of the game/fans)usually call him "hero" or "protagonist" if they talk about him. I've never encountered anyone who referred to Hito-Shura as anything other than Hito-Shura or Demi-Fiend. SeventhEvening 03:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Personally I prefer consistency. If only because it avoids arguments. You can argue about the fundamental organizational principles, but at least you don't have to worry about case by case instances that way--Yksehtniycul 10:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

True Enemy??

How do people know that "True Enemy" means YHVH? True enemy could mean many things, including some yet unveiled character. Nocturne differs so much from SMT2 I don't see why this sort of speculation is necessary. Plus YHVH is not really Lucifer's enemy. If any developed character is, it would be Satan probably, but we really can't know for certain. The meta-verse of Nocturne is extremely convoluted as it is. Anyway, I just don't feel comfortable linking "true enemy" to YHVH's page based on what I know. Seems like speculation period. --Yksehtniycul 00:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

PS: According to the setup of Nocturne, YHVH would most logically be the previous "reason" chooser, which "Hito-Shura" would be replacing. So it seems illogical that YHVH would be the true enemy... especially at that point. The true enemy is more likely something that would negate existence completely or something, on the scale of the Goddess, which clearly trumps YHVH, which is really a tragic character more or less. I think Nocturne is truthfully probably a prequel to a real yet unreleased SMTIII which would probably have Hitoshura in place of YHVH as the new big boss... probably with a true demon type personality (opposite YHVH but still as bad) --Yksehtniycul 00:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure at what you are getting at. --Maha Bufudyne 00:15, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm trying to find out why "true enemy" = "YHVH" ... PS: I haven't played thru Nocturne. --Yksehtniycul 00:20, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you play the game aiming for the Lucifer ending, a voice from the heavens tells you to stop multiple times as you proceed down the Labyrinth of Amala. Eventually, Metatron appears, saying "You have ignored my warning. You are beyond the point of redemption. I cannot turn I blind eye to the fallen angel's abominable plan...to foster the birth of a new demon. Delivering the candelabra to the Labyrinth of Amala is just as grave a sin. Listen Fiend! Foul Demon who's soul is tainted with darkness! Listen! And tremble in fear! I am Metatron! I am One with God! By His will, I shall destroy you! Feel the wrath of God, disciple of Darkness!" I think that implies fairly heavily that Lucifer's will is opposed to God's. SeventhEvening 03:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

It does sound convincing, but it's hard to say Metatron has not just gone nuts in the absence of YHVH. It's really not a solid enough argument to go making links. I'd say use qualifying language, but wikis usually have a policy against "weasel words". Anyway, I still think it's bad practice to make this speculative conclusion an organizing principle.--Yksehtniycul 17:27, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, well, there is more. I just thought that the words of Metatron would be enough. Then how about words straight from Lucifer's mouth? After killing Kagutsuhi, Lucifer greets the player. He says some "no more creation" stuff, and then he says, "The Great Will shall curse you for going against his way and place a heavy burden of atonement on your shoulders which you shall bear for all eternity. Fear not. For only by receiving that curse can you truly walk the path of conquest. But first, I must know the extent of the power of darkness you hold within. Behold the supreme power of darkness, created by none other than the Great Will Himself..." Then Lucifer drops his human guise and appears before the Hito-Shura in his true, fallen angel form. A boss battle begins. If the player wins, Lucifer returns to his human form and congratulates the player. Then he calls to an army of demons lurking in the shadows. He mentions the birth of a new demon, and then says "The time has come. Together, let us march onward! To the final battle...where our true enemy awaits!" The screen zooms out and then fades to black, then another voice, presumably YHVH says "...You have created a new demon in your heart's likeness, fallen angel? Then doom shall set us apart...Now and forevermore..." Then the credits roll. I'd say that's pretty definitive. Sure, the phrase YHVH wasn't ever directly uttered, but it shouldn't have to be. SeventhEvening 18:52, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd say that is fairly definitive... the wiki would be better to cite this sort of evidence when referring to YHVH as part of the scheme of Nocturne. On a personal note I was hoping Nocturne was heading off more in an eastern direction... something to distinguish it from Megaten1&2 because it just pales in comparison to those games together. All the cast are eastern, so I dunno why to toss YHVH back in the fold after defeated. I still can't decide whether to play Nocturne or not. I'm not a fan of SMT so.... --Yksehtniycul 20:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you hate SMT, so you should probably skip it. The game isn't the easiest thing to get your hands on (In Japan or America) and it shares a lot with SMT and SMT2. It does a few things that are easier on the player, such as letting you know when you hit a weakness (and then rewarding you for it) as opposed to the player just stabbing blindly until they find something that does a fair amount of damage. Fusion is also more simplified. Other than that, mechanically, aesthetically, and spiritually, it's very similar to SMT. Also, YHVH was a major player in SMT and SMTII as well, so it kinda makes sense for him to appear in SMTIII. It does some cool things with dialogue though, with it being very careful not to regard anyone as a villan or as "evil" so that you could draw your own conclusions. Lucifer isn't really regarded as an evil figure, but rather the ultimate expression of chaos, as opposed to YHVH being pure Law. SeventhEvening 20:51, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I have a copy of the Chronicle Edition if I ever feel like playing it. It's just the number one Megaten game everyone insists I play asap. --Yksehtniycul 21:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you've already got it, then why not play it? SeventhEvening 21:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Demon Sponsor

shouldn't lucifer being demi-fiends demonic sponsor? he gives the player his power and is ok with normal, demon and truth demon ending

Demonic Sponsor implies that Demi-Fiend is human, he was turned into a half-demon with the Magatama, so he wasn't human when the Conception started. Of course, I might be remembering the cutscenes wrong. Since he isn't human, he has no chance of making a Reason, therefore he has no sponsor. --BOXN 14:53, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Demon Sponsor only appears for re-creation under Kagutsuchi's approval. Since Lucifer desires the opposite, he isn't Demon Sponsor by any mean. -- Inpursuit (talk) 15:30, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Anybody have a video of the Demi-fiend fight in imagine?

Been looking for it and couldn't find anything. Been really interested in seeing his fight but browsing youtube only yielded results for the other bosses under Lucifer. The Truthful Knight 22:23, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Where in any part of the game was "Lucifer's general" ever mentioned?

The TDE route continuously says that the Demi-fiend will be the secret weapon who will tip the balance of the endless war of Light and Darkness. He's made out to be a champion of Chaos, not some commander of Lucifer's. Nowhere was that ever even stated. It's not even canon. All that was stated and repeatedly hinted at was the Demi-fiend would be the most powerful demon of Chaos. The Truthful Knight 07:35, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what part of the article you could be referring to or what this is leading to but I remember them saying that Demi-fiend could become one of Lucifer's generals in Nocturne. EVEN if that wasn't mentioned, it was clearly so in IMAGINE. 14:56, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

I'm more or less sure that it was implied or mentioned during one of the 'Hole' discussions, and Zahlzeit is right about it being said in IMAGINE. --BOXN 20:23, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Imagine is non-canon. As proof, Michael, of all people, is in Lucifer's army. And The Lucifer of that game is some 'new' Lucifer depending on the ending you pick (some experiemented guy morphs into a new Lucifer or some nonsense). Heck, everything in Imagine is non-canon to the series. So where in the game was it said that he would be Lucifer's general in the canon Nocturne? I went through the True Demon Ending twice and never found any such mention by either Lucifer or the Lady in Black. Maybe I'll go at it again on my fifth playthrough just to make sure but even using youtube and looking up the explanation videos, all I see is Demifiend being inferred to be the strongest Chaos demon and Lucifer's secret weapon to tip the balance of the eternal war. That was it. The Truthful Knight 21:19, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, now that you bring it up, is there any explanation for why Michael is in Lucifer's army? Even if it is noncanon (though this is so far the only thing you have said that seems "off" with IMAGINE canonwise. Well, the Demifiend is strange, but dimension travel and all that) doesn't IMAGINE still follow the Law, Neutral, Chaos system used by the rest of the series? It seems rather odd that they'd just make Michael Chaos for no reason when a Law faction exists and according to the lore, he should be leading it, even if behind the scenes. I guess what I am saying is, prove it. Prove IMAGINE made this big mistake and thus isn't canon, or at the very least, isn't canon for some other reason. Sorry for my skepticism. EDIT:But I am getting off topic, and I apologize.--Otherarrow 21:49, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Um... have any of you read SMT Imagine's story? It's a 'what-if' series that assumes the events of SMT1's Great Destruction did NOT happen and then follows suit with the story from there. The Lucifer of the game isn't even the same Lucifer in the main series and Imagine has no bearing or consequence on the main series. So the Demi-fiend that appears there isn't the canon one either. The Online game is just "what if SMT1 went differently" and adds as much content as possible from other games. This isn't a stretch to do this either since multiple universes have existed in the series before such as the P2 games and the Raidou games (you even meet the alternate universe Raidou Kuzonoha in both Raidou games).

Anyway, back to the original point, I only brought it up because I've seen people say he becomes Lucifer's general but that was never explicitly or implicitly stated or implied. All that was said was the Demi-fiend would tip the balance of the war, forevermore, and bring doom upon the Law side because he would be strong enough to end the war. The Truthful Knight 22:13, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

I thought it was basically the "years between" SMT1 and 2 and about basically the Messians and Gaians duking it out in the ruins of Tokyo post flood for who would rebuild the world. The Law guys win, but I don't think IMAGINE's plot has gotten that far yet. Forgone conclusion I think. Of course, I admit, I don't know first hand the story of IMAGINE, but this is the plot I've seen reported. As for mutant guy Lucifer, didn't you say that is just one possibility for who Lucifer is in IMAGINE? ("depending on the ending you picked", you said)? And Demifiend can just be summoned from an alternate reality to aid the other Chaos demons. As you said, those exist. And you didn't answer me on the Michael thing.

I'll be honest, I am not sure where the Lucifer's general thing came from either. IMAGINE says it, but I've seen the term used long before the Demifiend's IMAGINE cameo appeared. I think it must have come from somewhere, or we wouldn't have reported it as such.--Otherarrow 23:41, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think it was just presumed from the ending of the True Demon route despite not being said or even hinted at. The game only thing that's implied in his own game is that he'll be the most powerful chaos demon and destroy the balance of the universe. Imagine follows a totally different story from what I've seen. Especially considering they have Lucifer get reborn from some dude as a 'new Lucifer'. Weird game... but yeah, I doubt Imagine could be canon to the main series considering that.

Edit: Found the clip. Apparently if you don't kill a baby in a previous story act, it finishes it's transformation as the new Lucifer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyRp00SHLDk&feature=related

The Truthful Knight 00:58, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Was a little reticent to touch on this, since it's pretty necro-y. I wasn't there during the event, so I don't know much about how it was explained. The event boss was called 主の意志を遂行せし者 ミカエル (Accomplishing the Lord's Will Michael) and he appeared with Gabriel, Uriel, Raphael, and Metatron (along with the usual team of divines that act as support in most Seraph battles in Imagine).

As far as Demi-fiend fight videos, most of the videos there are of the fight are using a pretty cheap ailment tactic. But there's that set of videos. --Zettaizetsubou (talk) 16:30, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

glad he's dlc for IV