Can we rethink tables?Edit

I know it's a bit late in the game, but could we please rethink the SMTI&II tables so they're not so wide. There's just no way we can fit these into our format at

At the least if the graphics were ditched they would probably fit. But I think there could be a better way to do it if 3 rows were used rather than one. But detaching the graphic from the table in general would be nice. Or even perhaps the graphics should just be left to the gallery area of pages?

Anyway, we can do a lot to reformat html. But tables like these are just impossible to work around, so all we can do is stick them in scrollbars. In general I'd like the people making decisions about formatting to be conscious of our mirror effort. --Yksehtniycul 08:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Let's see if we can reduce the tables to 80% - that's the ideal width would it? BLUER一番 09:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I've yet to see an 80% table that doesn't fit, however there is no guarantee. It really depends on the content of the table. Just something else to be aware of. The only true metric is to hop on over to the page view on our website and see if it looks like it fits and would have plenty of slack if filled with max values. But in general it's better if the tables fit most of the time, then never--Yksehtniycul 11:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
w000t! It fits beautifully on D3B ^^ BLUER一番 12:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Good thing it was templatized (I hope they all are) ...I remember checking out some of the tables around here trying to figure why the the wiki was generating all th element tables, and they were not templates. I think some of the field names could be more intelligible. I'd suggest only making the stats you can control all caps, and just capitalizing the first letter for the rest. I also wouldn't be worried about using 4 or 5 letters if necessary for extra stats. Something like Atks or Atk# might be clearer for instance. Anyway, whatever fits is good enough to shut me up --Yksehtniycul 15:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


I don't think there is any connection between Baal and Bael. I know as far as Megami Tensei is concerned these are technically different. Though there is some trick to fusing a devil that seems to be named Baal in MT2 by using an event item (actually Bael himself in toad form)

Baal however is a generic term I think that basically means lord. These are definitely different however, so I'm not sure it's appropriate to associate them... definitely not on the basis of their names being similar. Bael I think is part of the Goetia / Dictionary Infernal, and might be based on the word Baal, but anyway... I'd do a lot of homework and cite everything before trying to connect them on paper....

I see this is covered in the pages somewhat, but I just gotta stress these are different devils with very different functions. Bael is especially important being really the second most important boss in MT2 and featured prominently in other games as well.--Yksehtniycul 15:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

For the record, the devil that gets unioned with Bael is Beelzebub, but he's not in your party... it happens after you beat him if you chose to bring Bael (in toad form with you and release it upon Beelzebub) ...this is probably a play on all these devils basically have Bael, Baal, and Beel, in there names / acedemic linguistic derivations of the names.--Yksehtniycul 15:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Megami Tensei 2Edit

For the record, the boss of Megami Tensei 2 could probably use its own page: Bael (Megami Tensei II boss). --Yksehtniycul 21:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Devil SurvivorEdit

Look at Belberith in Devil Survivor and tell me that's not simply a modern redesign of Bael. At first I was thinking... is it a reference to Berith? All of the "Bel" demons reference other demons/beings(Beelzebub is Belzaboul, etc.), but with some name changes. I think we should acknowledge it in some form. AetherMaster 07:14, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, Belberith looked like a pseudo-Legion demon now that he has more than just the human, cat and frog heads. He could be referencing Baalberith, a Canaan demon in Judaism, or something. Probably Trivia. BLUER一番 11:17, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, it's sort of a conglomerate of both; Belberith in name, but its look is definitely a throwback to the Bael/Baal artwork from the Dictionnaire Infernal, which Bael's artwork from the earlier games (and several of Kaneko's demons) are based off of. If you notice, the cat head and the frog head are nearest to the old king's head. And of course, the main body of Belberith is a giant spider. Devil Survivor sort of takes liberties with these Bel demons. AetherMaster 20:53, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Sure, I noticed it too. It's good to mention these on the articles, so yeah. BLUER一番 02:34, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
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