Isn't it that Persona users can be killed like any other person out of where they use their persona (Like: Out of the Metaverse, Out of Tataurus...Etc?) I'm pretty sure that there are situations in the game where you cannot use your persona and get killed or harmed like anyone else.
Hey man, I saw you recently did an edit to this article (http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Loss_Giant), and I was wondering how you managed to get the base stats for the shadow? Fuuka's scan doesn't show the stats so I'm kinda lost. Thanks!
Datamining. People went out of their way to hack into the game's code and look at those stats. I'm NOT one of those people however, but you can find that info on the net, more often than not in Japanese sites. The one I use for P3 is this:
I am willing to volunteer time to work on the Devil Children demon stats. If you're saying that the demons share stats between the games, that we might as well assimilate all three versions ala P3+FES+Portable. And since you have completed the demon skills list page it would be a synch to add them to the skills module. And since Inpursuit (thank you Inpursuit whereever you are) have build the gem that is the skills module and template to be used by any games series, it would be easy to combine the three tables into one.
Yes, please, that would be greatly appreciated. My (lack of) knowledge of coding makes it kinda impossible for me to do this stuff myself.
Like I said before, demons in Black/Red/White Book all share the same stats. While some demons were added in the PS1 remake and in White Book, there's no overlap between the two groups so "childps" and "childwhite" can be used for the new demons of each game.
Also, the templates we use for the whole Devil Children series are based on the terminology of the DemiKids localization and like I later added to my forum post about the stats issue, it would be good to change "Element" to "Type" and "Type" to "Race" for all non-DemiKids games.
Just a heads up that I've started to change the Module:Skills/sandbox coding based on the forum discussion. We're going to unify Devil Children Black, Red, PS remake and White Book into one game code a la P3, probably DCBR for the main Black/Red, and DCPS for the remake and DCWB for WhiteBook, just like P3 has P3F and P3P. I haven't decide on one color code yet - feel free to decide on one. Once we decide on the class code we will rename Module:Skills/CHILDWHITE to Module:Skills/"new class code" and put all the Black, Red, PS and White book skills into that. Comments?
Just for clarification: are the ATK -> Attack, DEF -> Guard, MGC -> Magic, RES -> M Guard, SPD -> Speed, LCK => Luck stats changes be applicable to DemiKids Light/Dark too or is it just strictly for Black/Red/White and Fire/Ice?
Hi, sorry for the silence these last days (real life stuff happened).
No, the stats changes can't work for DemiKids because those localized names are mentioned in skill descriptions. For example, the description of the Defboost (Rakukaja) spell is "DEF Up. Party". So if we change DEF to Guard in DemiKids it wouldn't be consistent with the game itself (case in point, I'll have to edit Module:Skills/CHILDWHITE to change some minor stuff like Defense to Guard for the same reasons). So the changes are only for Black/Red/White/Fire/Ice.
"DCRB" "DCPS" and "DCWB" are fine. I have no issue with them.
As for the color... I think white would be best. Too many games already use the black+red colors (MT1, P5, Last Bible, 20XX, even DeSu1 uses a shade of red). The gold used for the current childps is out of the question since it has no connection to the games (I believe it was an arbitrary decision to differentiate it from vanilla Red/Black Book).
Thanks for the clarication! I'm going for "DCBRB" for Black/Red, "DCBRP" for the PS Version, "DCWB" for White Book exclusives. I'm also going to use color hex DCB, an off-white color with a slight red tint.
Just a quick question: We have Module:Skills/CHILDBLACK and Module:Skills/CHILDWHITE. Any difference between the two, and can we merge them to make that over-encompassing skills module for the DC series?
Module:Skills/CHILDBLACK only has skills from Black/Red Book and their PS1 remake. Module:Skills/CHILDWHITE has the skills from White Book... which are all skills already present in Black/Red alongside the new ones. There's really no need to merge them since CHILDWHITE already has everything, which is why I suggested it in the first place.
I only created Module:Skills/CHILDBLACK and Module:Skills/CHILDWHITE separately because at the time I hadn't realized yet that demons share stats and skills in all three games and so I thought that the games would require separate skill modules. CHILDBLACK can be deleted as it now serves no purpose.
The codes are now live! DCBRB for Black/Red, DCBRP for the Playstation remake, DCWB will put the demons in the White Book demons category. The skills list can also be edited in the Module:Skills/DCBRB. I believe what you suggested in the forum and talk page before is achieved.
As I said, Maya is an optional love interest. You do have the choice to romance her in IS and make her romance Tatsuya in EP, but it can't really be considered canon because you're given a choice of whether or not to do it. TatsuyaxLisa and TatsuyaxJun aren't considered canon for the same reasons.
At the end of the game, the Japanese version uses "special person" which can be interpreted in both a romantic and platonic way, though I admit it's normally intepreted as the former. The wording of the English localization kinda kills the intended ambiguity, but we shouldn't consider it canon just because of that. This whole thing ties in to a series of interviews about the characters:
Q: Are his feelings towards Maya love?
A: In a way, yes. Maya was Tatsuya's first love, but even so, because it happened when he was 8 years old, his feelings were more like the admiration of an older sister. Normally, time would pass and that would develop into feelings of romantic love towards other women, but in Tatsuya's case, that first love was a big sister figure that he couldn't protect, so those feelings towards Maya still trail on. Therefore, while he has special feelings for Maya, he doesn't look at her as an eligible woman. Specifically, he probably decided on his own that it would be disrespectful to date her. My feeling is that it is the most important for him to see her smiling happily nearby.
Q: Does she like Katsuya? Or does she like Tatsuya?
A: That's up to the player. Since Maya represents the player, if that person likes Katsuya, then Maya likes Katsuya. And if the player prefers Tatsuya, then that means she will fall for Tatsuya. If I were Maya, I'd pick Tatsuya. But Big Brother is a really great guy...I'm sorry...you know. *laugh* But since Maya has the "big sister" mentality going on in Tsumi, if she did this and that with Tatsuya, it would be kind of awkward, but in Batsu I don't think she has that problem.
If you, the player, ship TatsuyaxMaya, then Maya likes Tatsuya back and all the hints can be interpreted in a romantic light. If you don't, then Tatsuya's love is one-sided and Maya only sees him as a friend/brother and the hints can be interpreted in a platonic light.
See? Maya liking Tatsuya back was never set in stone, so Persona World putting Tatsuya -> Maya under the "One-sided Love" entry doesn't contradict the game at all. She canonically doesn't like him in a romantic way, but as a player and fan you can still enjoy a hypothetical TatsuyaxMaya playthrough. It's like Persona 3 Portable: the male protagonist is canon, but you're still given the chance to experience a non-canon scenario where the protag is a girl.
The interview says that it's up to you if she likes Tatsuya or Katsuya, but you also have the choice to choose neither. The player has as much power to ship them as to NOT ship them. Tatsuya's feelings were never an issue: he likes Maya, he just can't see himself in a relationship with her because Maya is also like a sister for him. The issue is whether Maya likes him back or not.
Canonically, she doesn't. You as the player can make her be interested in Tatsuya, but it's not canon. The games let you choose between A and B, and later sources (interviews and the guide) state that A is canon. That doesn't mean that you can't play the game and choose B, it's just that B isn't canon.
That’s the point if there is is a issue of choice hence no solid cannon in such issues. It’s why there is no solid canon romance in any persona except arguably the first.
The interview says The opposite the guide says another. Yet at the end of the day it’s a matter of choice. However the fact the interview and subsequent interviews say there is no canon but he personally leans twords Tatsuya’, means we should assume no canon. As we do with all persona games and similar issues.
All I get from that interview is that Satomi Tadashi puts his own feelings if he was the player, he never mentions anything on the canonacity of the matter, he just says it's up the the player whether she likes Tatsuya or Katsuya. You keep saying it's canon she doesn't but I don't see anything being said about canon.
Also, he's separating IS Maya and EP Maya since technically speaking they aren't the same person.
One thing that is important to note is what the writer says and another is what the game shows and tells you, if two things contradict each other then the game takes precedence due to being the media the story is being told.
In-game you're given a choice of romancing Maya in IS or not. In EP, you're given the chance of romancing Tatsuya or not. The fact that you're given a choice to do it or not means there's no canon answer.
Tadashi is asked "does Tatsuya love Maya?" He answers "yes." Tadashi is asked "does Maya love Tatsuya?" He answers "it depends on what you, as a player, want." This reinforces what the game shows.
The Persona World guide has this entry:
One element of the Personas series that cannot be overlooked is the romantic relationships between characters. The earnest feelings of some characters towards their significant others touched the hearts of many players.
And I don't really get why FFMaverick01 is trying so hard to argue in favor of deleting that piece of trivia. It says "according to the Persona World guide" and indeed, that's what the guide says. How about we reach a compromise and add a "however, the player still has the choice of making them date" to the end? Everyone happy?
I’m arguing because interviews that happen afterwords and the game dispute that. The guide probably shouldn’t be considered canon when it comes to thing which options are required.
The guide is also seemingly incorrect with Maki, considering she was stated to be having dinner with her mother and “boyfriend” who is hinted to be piercy. So may things in game and interviews contradict the guide. Hence why we should probably just go with those. Removing the trivia doesn’t take away anything from the page.
Q: What will happen between her and the Main Character from Ibunroku?
A: I don't know. She still likes him, but so does Maki...Ellie has cut her hair off, which I think might possibly be a sign of her resolving those feelings. Whoever Maki was eating and doing other things with at the end of Ibunroku was there just to create atmosphere. The person she's with might be Main, or it might not be. In the end, the player == Main, so if the player hated Maki, it wouldn't end up that way, would it? On the other hand, if the player liked Maki, then naturally, it would have been him there with her...it's like that. How would it conclude, I wonder. I'm interested in that.
Game: You can choose between A and B.
Interviewer: Which is canon, A or B?
Scenario writer: There's no canon answer, it depends on whether you like A or B better.
Guide: A is canon.
You: A can't be canon because B exists in-game.
This is called "cutting the branches." At some point there are multiple outcomes and no canon choice, but later on one can be chosen as canon. The game can be interpreted both ways and Satomi Tadashi agrees, but the guide cuts one of the branches.
The interview is canon, as is the guide. You're arguing that the interview is a timeless truth while the guide isn't and I'm arguing that the guide is true, but as the interview says the player still has the liberty of making a choice.
SMT1 has three endings, one of which was made canon when SMT2 was released two years later. When P2 was released the player could choose if Maya responds to Tatsuya's feelings or not. The guide states that Maya doesn't like him, but the choice of liking him still exists in-game.
This argument is starting to become circular. I've already said that adding a "however the player still has the choice of romancing Tatsuya" would solve all problems. That trivia would state a fact: the guide does says that Maya doesn't like him and you can contradict the guide in-game. Whether you believe the guide is true or false is another thing, the sentence would be factual.
There is no Canon is a game based on choice. The interviews and may similar come after the guide was released. Cutting branches only overs if it shows in the next game, which nither case does. So it’s best not to state any “canon”, unless it shows in game. Crock425 also seems to agree.
The trivia is about how Maya’s persona represents her lack of romantic interest. But considering a) she’s a romantic interest in IS d) has clear romatic moments in Ep, it’s probably best not to include the trivia at all. Stated “you can choose otherwise” wouldn’t solve anything. Because then the trivia wouldn’t be true.
So considering it’s 1) a matter of choice 2) interviews after the Guide also state there is no canon and 3) the games themselves have clear Rome options, it’s probably best we don’t include the trivia. It takes nothing away from the page if we remove it anyway.
First of all, I do agree that Maya is a romance option. I also disagree that Artemis has anything to do with the issue, that was whoever added that trivia jumping to conclusions, and this wiki doesn't need fan theories. That piece of trivia isn't about how Artemis represents Maya not liking Tatsuya, is about the guide stating that Maya doesn't like Tatsuya and whoever added that to the wiki put the Artemis bit. If that's your only complaint to the "you can choose otherwise" solution, I'm also in favor of deleting the Artemis bit.
Second of all, the interview is from Persona Club III which was published on December 2000 while the Persona World guide is from April 2001. There's no interview after the guide that contradicts it.
if You delete the Artimis bit (which seems to be the main point of the trivia) you’d basically saying a canon romance, which is something that’s better to avoid. It would basically be saying how Makoto’s feelings for Joker in P5 are one sided. The game has the options to show the opposite so it’s not a fact. So you would simply not include it to begain with.
At the end the guide says one thing, while interviews and the game show the other. It’s best to leave it to the player and not mention it one way or the other. If don’t want the Artemis bit it’s better to get rid of the trivia in general.
Saying "However, the player can have Maya make romantic guestures to either of them" throughout EP instead of the Artemis bit wouldn't say anything about the canon, just a fact about the player's choice in-game
But it would contradict the first bit which is the the point of why include it in general.
You could say “ the guide states she has no romantic feelings. however you can romance her in the game and make her romance others, while the creators also state it’s up to the player.”, but why would you include all that when you could simply say “she’s a romance option”?
How is commenting on what the Guide says by telling the reader "The Suou brothers are still romancable in-game" not going with what's in the game? It's sharing what the Guide says while showing it isn't necessarily true due what what's in-game
What? I never said that was the issue. Because all you’re saying in the end is “the guide says one thing and interviews and game say ther other”. Your basically saying the saying it’s up to the player when that’s what romance option means to begin with. So it’s not really needed.
For some reason, you got in your head that the Artemis bit was the "main point of the trivia" (your exact words). It is NOT. That is speculation added by someone. The point of the trivia is what the guide states, and so the Artemis bit was removed.
There is nothing wrong with the trivia now. The trivia is two statements:
"According to the Persona World Guidance book, Maya is stated to not be romantically interested in either of the Suou brothers." That is true. This statement doesn't say that the guide is gospel truth, only that the guide says something. Whether or not you believe the guide is correct is irrelevant, the statement is a factual one hence the "according to."
"However, the player can still make Tatsuya and Maya enter a relationship and make Maya flirt with Katsuya." Again, this is true. The use of "however" indicates that the player has the choice of going against what the guide says.
I think you missed the point. The trivia you put basically just says she’s a romance option and states a somewhat questionable source.
You would have to state both sides of the argument like
“There is donate over Maya and romance. According to the Persona World Guidance book, Maya is stated to not be romantically interested in either of the Suou brothers. Meanwhile interviews state it’s up to the player to choose Maya’s feelings, but with a personally Leaning twords Tatsuya. Ultimately the player can still make Tatsuya and Maya enter a relationship and make Maya flirt with Katsuya.”
But in the end you’re still basically stating it’s up to the player So it’s not needed as the wiki tends to avoid such things with romance options.
There is a mechanic in the new Liberation game that's called Reincarnation, which is used to increase a demon's level cap. Because of that, I moved the song page and turned the original one into a disambiguation page (I even edited already so that the original isn't just a redirect to Reincarnation (song) anymore).
I'll get around to write a Reincarnation (Liberation) page soon, I just thought I'd go ahead and do this in preparation since I noticed we already had a page named Reincarnation when I was making the template.