Talk: Manual of Style

Wow

Wow! That's all I can say. A lot of what Blue has for guidelines I absolutely agree with, and have gotten myself into the habit of doing over at other Wikis anyway. Plus, I just think it looks nicer, and the italicized or bold words stand out from the others as they should. But, whoops! Sometimes, I find myself correcting "colour" to "color" (I am American), which is rude to the British person that originally wrote it (something that was wiki-fied).

Anyway, I am really proud and excited that the gears are turning again (albeit slowly), but we are all working on something, I think, that a large majority of people would not tackle, for various reasons. Keep up the good work, and you haven't heard the last of me! icy 02:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, we went from 20-some articles to 43 in this one week. I don't think we're doing to bad at all. I've been applying the style's guidlines to everything I can today, and it's already looking a million times better. Things seem easier to do now. Akkilmar 00:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Navigation Templates

I will probably start working on some templates, like the naviagtional ones Blue mentioned, tomorrow. I'll be sparsely available until Sunday/Monday though, since I work 12 hours shifts Thurs-Saturday every week. I'll see what else it looks like we need after I take a peek at some other wiki's. Akkilmar 07:50, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Cool! Just remember to name them short so we won't have to take long to type them :) Bluer 23:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll remember from now on. Hehe. ^_^ Akkilmar 23:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Games

I've added small guidelines on Game articles, but I know you guys have ideas on content too, so suggest away! Bluer 23:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as the Gameplay section of an article, I always thought is was weird to make it seperate from the first thing being written about a game before the other sections. Sometimes there's two sentences and then your hit with a Contents box. Personally, I think gameplay should be included before the Contents box breakdown. As for character, I really don't like seeing all of that space if we used a list on main game articles, so I'm thinking of outlining characters, or the party, or whatever, with a link leading to the List of XX characters for any given game. The locations section is pretty much the same as characters.

I suppose we could do something like a short breakdown, letting main location articles, or character articles, filling the more detail specific information (while trying to add pictures of said location), but I don't see some of them really being more informative than, at most, a paragraph. Another thing we need to set up are the information boxes for the games and characters. I like what Icy did with Devil Children by putting the box art at the bottom. I would much rather see the logo of the game in the information box rather than the box art. Eventually, I'd like to get enemy data together for the games too. With all of this discussion I'm pretty well able to go to town on the wiki the more we talk this stuff out. Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga has pretty much acted as the learning and implementation of our ideas for me. Thanks for the help. ^_~ Akkilmar 23:33, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment. Yeah, I feel pretty strongly about the box art and/or cover art (too, ?) being at the bottom. I really don't care about what other people do on other wikis. Perhaps, we can help implement a new style. Change is good, right? Just don't expect any credit from thieves. Anyway, wonderfully fantastic images of demons are on the way. I even asked permission from someone over at Dokuganryu if I could use them. I got their blessing, with the reply: "At last, somebody asked permission." icy 02:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, we should really cooperate with Dokuganryu. They've got real good images there. And icy, don't worry so much about the images, as long as we have follow fair use policy it would be all right. Bluer 03:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Demons

Basically, what I'm doing now is trying to figure out exactly how to group the demons. I've also, as you may have noticed, uploaded some images from the "Deities" group. (I'm trying to go in order.) I'm using the categories from here: [1]. This is a good resource for us, although I haven't been able to contact the person responsible. icy 05:18, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I was having trouble with this too. I think what they were doing was making compendiums for each game though, but I haven't looked into their method that much.. Another question is: do we want to make a seperate article for each occurance of the demon, like DDS Jack Frost and Persona 3 Jack Frost, or should we try to compress information on one article with sections regarding each occurance. You could essentially make a different template styled after the game they appear in either way. Akkilmar 23:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea of having their different incarnations on the same page, and list the game they appeared in there, as well. I don't like the idea, however, of pointing out on the game pages which demons are available for recruiting. The list would be ridiculously long. Your thoughts? icy 23:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... I agree. I would get insanely bored and tired of looking at a list like that on the game pages. Plus, it goes with my dislike of all that unused space on the game pages, like I was talking about with characters and location. I can get some sprites, that I'll do myself so we don't have to ask permission from some other site, for the Persona games if we wanted to put those with each incarnation too, for example. I'll build a demo template first to give us an idea tomorrow, if you'd like. Akkilmar 02:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, sounds good. About the individual Demon pages, it might be nice, since then only if someone was interested they could follow a path of links to find out more info on that particular one. I also think it might be interesting to include the origin of the demon in question. (Other than its relation to MegaTen and as long as it is somewhat brief.) If I hear enough loud "nay" votes from either you or Blue, I guess I'll reconsider. I don't know about you, but I was always fascinated with religion, myths and/or stories that gave info on what the person/god/goddess/angel/devil in question was known for. It's a good gateway to expand your knowledge of other cultures and what-not. Really, it's one part of the reason I was drawn to MegaTen in the first place. icy 03:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I have a demo template up in the sandbox. Akkilmar 18:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for not replying, was busy somewhere. Anyway, the template looks nice. Some of the lettering sizes are kinda off. And maybe we can put the image above the Arcana type? Other than that, I'll have to check if we can adopt this template and variate it for other Persona use like Persona 3 which I just started play (and it looks really awesome so far). And based upon my experience for the other wiki, we should put the template's name above the ((name)) of the demon. And we mte have to figure out a name for the template, something easy to type like Template:PS2Persona or something (Personas are these things names, amirite?)

The origin section would be VERY Interesting indeed. We should make it brief tho since it's better covered in wikipedia, to which we should link to.

Btw, character infobox too? Bluer 16:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been pretty busy myself, so don't worry about it. Let me fix this one up and I'll start on a character info box for us to use. Should the character boxes be different for each game as well? The thing with the Persona games before P3 is that the demons and Persona are the same. Any demon in the game can become a usable Persona later. What I'll do is make a template called P2Demon for right now. Akkilmar 16:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

(Personas are these things names, amirite?) I'm not 100% sure, Blue, but I'm pretty certain that they are all Demons, since I have seen the Personas classified as Demons elsewhere. Really, a demon is merely something that a person can summon and use for some purpose. icy 03:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe they're explicitly called Personas in P3. Bluer 03:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but these Personas are all Demons, aren't they? icy 05:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I kinda realized that in the end :p Bluer 10:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, it turns out that by trying to use the template I made, while trying to divide each game into a seperate section on the demon page, really makes things look horrible and not good. So, I bring to you a question (again): how do we want to do demon pages? We could have a single info box, but how do we utilize the amount of information for each occurance? Really, I'm just not sure what to do, but I'll build templates when we have a better solution. For now, I think I'll make a character info box like Blue was asking about. Akkilmar 01:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, this is the point where I bow out, and let you guys hash it out. If anyone needs me, I'll be over at Capcom. I do apologize, but that seems to be taking up my free time right now. icy 03:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, as far as these demons go, I've been referring to them like this: Izanagi. I think it's a good lay out for demons and Personae, but I don't don't how to refer to the demon clans. They've got several different names and it's rather intimidating. I think we might want some sort of demon specific template dealing with clans or demonic races. Possible a second template that will deal the Personae Arcana. If we used a game's template, Jack Frost is going to rack up twenty or thirty templates. Persona will be really easy since they're just divided by the arcana, which are the same in the english or Japanese version, but those demons....SeventhEvening 21:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Alright, I think the individual pages for demons should look something like Helios. Preferably with a bit more information, but with those categories. As far as templates go, maybe we should give each clan/arcana a template. Like "Justice Arcana" with a list of each persona in it. Or an over arching template that is "Persona" and only includes links to the Arcana pages, which will be lists. Demons would work the same, just replace the word "Persona" with demon and then list the Clans instead of Arcana. Personally, I think the over-arching template would be best. Like one for Persona (the arcana), One for Devil Summoner (raidou) classes (Pyro, Frost, Pagan, Skill, Wind, Volt, Fury), One for Shin Megami Tensei, and one for DDS. We might need more, I don't know what kind of classification exists in Devikids or Last Bible or older Devil Summoner games. We can cross those bridges when we come to them. Let me know what you think (especially since I probably won't be making the templates).

Actually, I think that's a pretty good idea. I'm still trying to work out disambiguation pages, which I understand for the most part, but I think I can try and work something out template wise. Now that i think of it we had been talking about character templates too... It's 02:08 here right now so I'm fried and may have some questions tomorrow, but we'll get it sorted out. Akkilmar 07:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Before I forget, the Navigation templates have a link to a Personae category. If we wanted we could add each Persona to a category, like Justice, and then add the Justice category page to the Presoae category page. So on and so forth for other games. I can make a template for each arcana (for the Persona series) listing each Persona in that arcana with every other arcana listed seperately. Before we go acting on this let me draw up some things and see how this will work out and connect. I'll also try to add some more Navigation templates for the other games that don't have any. Good night for now! ^_~ Akkilmar 07:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool. I'll wait for your word before I start slapping more non-existent categories to things. Although, I typically forget category markings and sign offs anyway. I think Arcana are pretty easy, and so are Devil Summoner (Raidou) categories, but those demon families and clans are going to be a bit painful. SeventhEvening 01:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Game Titles

Alright, I know that the games full names should be used as titles for games, but I have a proposition... I think the words "Shin Megami Tensei" should be removed from all games that are not actually part of the series. For the US releases, Atlus has been sticking "Shin Megami Tensei" on every single Megaten game so that people can identify that they are Megaten games. But despite being named "Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3", Persona 3 isn't a Shin Megami Tensei game, it's a Megaten game. I think that's pretty misleading and it makes a confusing game franchise more confusing. I think we should make the page "Persona 3" and have "Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3" a redirection page. If you disagree, I'd first like to point to Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army. That is a game title for the ages and having Shin Megami Tensei tacked to it makes it insane. It would be one thing if it really were a Shin Megami Tensei game, but it's a Devil Summoner title. I mean, it has two colons in it for Christ's sake!SeventhEvening 01:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Boxart

Alright, I've been ignoring the "put box art at the bottom" rule, but now I'd like to suggest a change in the rule... I think an image at the top of the article break the wall of text and simply makes the article look better. I do think that having a gallery of box arts at the bottom for changes in different regions would make sense too though. I think if all of it goes at the bottom, then were would we put screen shots? At the top? I don't think that will look very nice. So I think the rule should be changed. Anyone else feel that way? : SeventhEvening 01:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)