Spoilers..... for whatever good that does at this point.
Why are you guys spoiling this by changing the name of the article to Sumire Yoshizawa? I just read your Wiki policy on spoilers too and you've completely broken it. This was still obviously a spoiler because the English release is still not here and the game is being localized.
What the hell? Why has this been allowed? This is clearly breaking Wiki policy, not to mention common courtesy in regards to readers. What's the point in having spoiler warnings if you're just going to spoil one of the biggest twists concerning this character. And it's not even just with the page itself, but in other sections too, such as for the quick links template going "Kasumi Yoshizawa (Sumire Yoshizawa)
And yes, I'm pissed, no doubt not the only one either. I shouldn't have to worry about being spoiled without clicking on the damn characters page. I didn't know about this twist till I decided to go and grab some artwork for reference from some of the Persona games and the minute I open up suddenly I end up knowing Kasumi's true identity without even freaking clicking on and reading her page.
This is unacceptable and dickish on your guys part and I don't care if I get nasty comments flung my way, you guys should not have let this happen.
While you do have a viable point, arguing it by insulting the people who do the work of keeping this wiki updated isn't doing it any favors. Remember, if you have a good point to make, you can make it with evidence, not just by getting angry. Evidence may convince other logical people to your side; insulting them inclines them to ignore you.
That said, it's been almost two months since the game released. By this point, you should expect to find spoilers on the Megami Tensei Wiki, which is literally devoted to remaining as updated as possible. I don't think it's "unacceptable" and "dickish" for the people here to do their jobs. The other option is to allow the Sumire page to be called Kasumi's, which is inaccurate and misleading.
Further, in regards to your complaint to the quick link templates, what would you prefer? That they linked to actual Kasumi's page? That would be misleading and inaccurate, which is truly a gigantic problem with the very purpose of the wiki.
Now, while I disagree with you, I don't think you're wrong for disagreeing with me. In fact, feel free to approach admins about this. However, doing so by getting angry and insulting them will make them inclined to ignore you, as I'm sure it would incline you to do the same. Make your case, which is, in fact, valid, by evidence and be willing to compromise. That's the best way to resolve this.
Sorry for the text wall, it was probably unnecessary.
Thinking about it for two seconds, I didn't need to put too much thought about what I would have done in this case. Namely, I wouldn't have given the real Kasumi an article, because while she's a “character” in the loosest sense of the word, she's still a “character” exclusively tied into "Kasumi" herself due to what her role in the story and character arc is and doesn't need her own article. The real Kasumi is an extension of Sumire's character and thus should be treated as such. That way, you don't have to redirect to her character, therefore giving away such a major plot twist and breaking wiki policy in the process.
It is true that the game has been out for two months, but there's a difference between "This section contains spoilers", therefore allowing the individual reading the article to avoid said spoilers and "I'm going to change everything because it's just more accurate regardless of spoilers". And again, I need to re-iterate this, so I'm just going to point this out through an image of the wiki policy article and highlight the relevant section
This might seem vague, but it is right there. This is a game that is not out yet in English territories, meaning regardless of how long its been out for Japan, it's still containing of spoilers for everyone. It is going to be released in March, it's going to be localized, spoilers should be actively avoided instead of made unavoidable.
And not only that, saying it's inaccurate and misleading to call Sumire's page Kasumi's is missing the point of the twist in the first place. It's supposed to be shocking, it's supposed to be something we find out about the character who is called Kasumi Yoshizawa in the marketing and the early parts of the game before the twist happens! It's not inaccurate to keep that information a secret, because it's a twist that the players are supposed to discover. And not only that, but again, the real Kasumi isn't her own character in the way that Akechi and Shido are their own separate characters, thus it makes sense to have an article for separate characters. Kasumi is an extension of Sumire in a similar way as Justine and Caroline are extensions of Lavenza. She's a plot device for Sumire's character to lead up to the big twist about her and nothing. And all you have to do is just name the article "Kasumi's sister" and then put spoiler tags in it to warn readers who haven't played it away. It's a flimsy excuse to say it's inaccurate to do so, so we should change it to reflect that, regardless of whether or not it's also breaking policy by doing so. The real Kasumi should never have been given an article of her own, she's not enough of her own character to justify it.
And going back to the "insults" you are talking about, it is unacceptable to do something that you know is going to piss people off and do it anyway and for flimsy reasons such as the ones given here. Because I'm sure I'm not the only one and someone has to be honest about it. Just because you don't like how it's being said, doesn't mean it's not valid to tell you what I think. Just because you disagree with how I say, doesn't make my point about it any less valid, you guys should have known better. It isn't an insult, furthermore, just telling you guys something is dickish and unacceptable isn't the same as telling you guys you're pieces of shit who eat babies or kick puppies because you enjoy pissing people off. That is an insult, because it's directly attacking you and calling you names that are designed to be hurtful. Context matters is in this character and dismissing peoples anger just because you think it might be "insulting" is not a good thing. People are entitled to say things are dickish and unacceptable, because no one is directly being attacked. I didn't say "so and so" is a piece of shit, now did I?
This is a much longer text wall, but I have to make it clearer why this situation reflects poorly on you guys. This is not an unprecedented situation, this is a situation that the admins and mods and such have allowed to become convoluted for the sake of accuracy, regardless of story and characterization or even policy. That deserves to be called out and criticized.
If I were a mod, I would ban you right away for being a dick. Also for single purpose account.
That's how things work. Unprecedented case IS an unprecedented case. I've already used the way that Danganronpa handles spoilers to do it, and Oasis basically makes sure this fails.
In Monobook, you cannot be spoiled unless you look at a SPOILER section or the Recent Changes.
And finally this is NOT my idea. Someone in Phan Site Discord requested me to do it because they are literally different people.
If you are not a mod, then you shouldn't have done it unilaterally, or you should have requested advice from a mod. Also, that would be a complete abuse of power, because being a dick is not a bannable offense by itself and if the other admins were to hear you did that, they would strip you of those powers because you were abusing them.
And again, some people don't use Oasis, some people don't use monobook or whatever, and Dangaronpa's wiki is different from this wiki and we do have a policy concerning policy that you broke. Regardless how they do it, it doesn't apply here.
And that excuse makes it even worse what you've done, because you not only did it unilaterally, you did it because someone asked you to do it. That is, again, not just not acceptable to put the request of one person and just do it.
You are the wolf crying wolf. Plus you made an account DESIGNED to deliberately target me like a Know-All. Gaming the system, Whatever....
No, I've had this wiki account for years. I just have not used it for this particular wiki page I didn't need to beforehand.
And I'm not crying wolf, I have a legitimate grievance that I posted and you are trying to sidestep over to defend what you did. And then you bring up that you'd ban me as a mod just because I was slightly aggressive and stated my actual feelings without directly insulting anyone. I never directly insulted you, but you seem to want to do so by threatening me with things that you can't do, just to try and bully me. Because that's what you did by pointing that out.
Look, nobody should ever be banned over being a dick. If that happened, nobody would be allowed to use the internet.
Nemesis does have a genuine point, and it is something that should be taken up with the Mods. Could he have been more polite? Yes. But Rex could have also not just insulted him for taking a vested interest. He could explain what he did and move on; bandying insults just makes both parties angrier.
This is a unique case- both Sumire and Kasumi are actual characters, and Sumire is doing Sumire things. Both characters need a page. However, dang near everywhere Kasumi is referenced on the wiki, it's actually referring to Sumire. Thus, the pages should logically be linked to Sumire's page. Kasumi, however, is an actual separate human being, and did not do the things that Sumire did while she believed she was Kasumi. She did do other things, and is seen in game, albeit in a flashback. Therefore, there's no reason that she shouldn't get a page as well. She can't just be lumped into Sumire's page, just like JOKER from Persona 2 IS can't be lumped into Tatsuya McEvil's page just because he pretended to be JOKER during EP. They are different people.
I'm not going to deal with this thread anymore. It doesn't really affect me much, and frankly, I'm not very concerned over the outcome. I explained reasoning to the best of my ability. I ask now that both of you try and find a solution that doesn't involve insulting each other in circles, optimally by talking to someone who is an actual Admin or Mod.
Maxus, I've did way before this and he doesn't care. I didn't have a choice other than to explain consequences.
No, you didn't do this. You just ignored my points, gave a policy for a wiki that's not this one to justify it, then kept dodging my points, claiming I'm attacking you, targeting you or just threatening you.
I do care about this, given reasons, alternatives and ideas of how you could do it better. But you don't want to hear that, you just want to hear me say "gee, I guess I was wrong to think it was wrong for you to ignore the two weeks after the English release caveat" and such. And then when I try and point it out in an actual discussion and call me a communist. You are everything you are claiming I am doing, but with no self awareness at all.
You do not, trust me. I know from your passive aggressive tone.
From the very beginning I know what you are up to. STARTING from the message I saw from Kasumi's talk page.
I've tried to reason with you and you seemingly ignore it. Therefore, I'm teaching you of the consequences. You then brought the conflict to a THIRD party, where they a lot more lenient than a wiki but won't tolerate your behavior there nevertheless.
You are literally just playing "the victim card."