Abel or Demifiend? Both at their peak. King of Bel, and True Demon Demifiend.
Round 1: Just these two by themselves
Round 2: They have access to their demons and friends.
I think a tied
Prolly Abel since he is smarter and actually won his battle against God (implied at least) unlike the Demi-Fiend.
I’d say Abel would win that fight by far. He can command all demons, is a very good tactician, as well as the power to summon Beldr, a demon that is immortal. The only thing that can kill it is in Abel’s hands. Not to mention Abel has a lot of allies like Naoya and Atsuro, people who are incredibly intelligent as well as capable demon tamers. This coupled with the fact that Abel succeeded in killing god, is why Abel would destroy the Demi-Fiend.
Abel doesn't command all demons. There are some that opposed him even when he did attain the throne. Also having an immortal demon doesn't mean anything. Demifiend killed Kagutsuchi, who is also immortal. There has to be something more impressive that Beldr can do aside from immortality. Abel may have friends, but you addressed it like that's what all the fight is about, it isn't. One of the rounds have them by themselves. Take out his friends and now what happens? Also where is it stated that he succeeded in killing god? Nowhere does it say this kind of thing. There might be some implications that he won, but that's kind of a moot point since Demifiend also has implied to have defeated god.
To respond to that, I see your point. In many of the King of Bel endings, it is heavily implied that Abel has won, or is very close to actually winning against God, Naoya being able to give a rough estimate as to when the war is going to be done means that Abel has a 90% chance of winning. With the Demi Fiend, in Nocturne it only says that he is going to wage the war. We don’t get much confirmation about the actual war. But his appearance in Digital Devil Saga 1 as the Super Boss doesn’t bode well. At the end of the fight he says ‘Death’s vastness holds no peace’.To me this implies that the Demi Fiend was killed in battle against god and is left to wonder the multiverse.
Onto to my next point, while Beldr by himself is not that impressive, only about level 30 and generally isn’t a very strong demon. But mechanically and in the story of the game, he cannot take damage. Kagatsuchi can be damaged, it may take a long while to actually get to him, but damaging him isn’t the problem when fighting him. It’s the actual fight. Dealing with Beldr would take either dumb luck or research. The only thing in existence that can kill him is Devil’s Fuge. Granted, if the Demi-Fiend figured it out, Beldr is bye-bye, but this is a one on one, so it doesn’t matter that much.
But the fact that this is a one on one fight is an advantage for Abel. Abel usually fights with only one or two demons at most, while the Demi Fiend usually uses 3. While it may not seem like much, being able to delegate roles to multiple teammates is invaluable in an actual battle. Abel usually would have to take on more ‘roles’ or do more work to get a fight done by himself. So I would say he is very used to having to fight on his own. I may be making a few leaps in logic, but I don’t think they are that big.
To to sum up, I see your points but I disagree, and I appreciate the response and I look forward to your next! Have a nice day sir and or madam.
Okay first off, thank you. You’re a very nice person whether male or female. I hope I get to talk to you about stuff that isn’t just about debates somewhere in the future.
Secondly, while it is implied they were close, it’s still that, implications of them winning the war, not actually shown them doing it. Again implications can be also used to Demi’s benefits. In the same message you have talked about, Demifiend says all has bended to his will. That is pretty blatant. Also for his “death’s vastness holds no piece” that can just be inferred as Demi saying he has killed many things, not necessarily he has died in battle. In the same game, Brahman is the supreme god, not YHVH. This can also be implied that Demifiend has killed YHVH. Whether these implications are true doesn’t matter, since for the sake of arguments I will not be using them.
As for your point with Beldr, I can see where I misinterpreted. The way you described leans more towards invulnerability and not immortality. Though all demons in SMT are already immortal.
Ahh...that explains it. It seems we have two different ways of thinking. You seem to go strictly thinking that fights will go like they do in the same way as in the game. That is why you say that Abel can take on demons by himself despite him being clearly in a group. You know, like there is a room of demons, you guys split into teams and take on demons separately. I personally don’t believe that to be the case. Yes some game mechanics are definitely useable in a real fight like buffing and debuffing, but that’s because I can see them legitimately using it in a fight. In a fight I don’t see them just standing there and taking turns like a rpg. And by extension, I do not see them just splitting off in different groups and moving like a chess board. I see them fighting as a unit together. Whether or not if they are fighting like they legit do in the games, I do not see how that will make Abel a superior fighter then Demifiend. In the Lucifer fight, the Devil Survivor crew had to face him. They weren’t doing it separately as if they fought their own Lucifer’s, but they fought a single Lucifer together. Demifiend on the other hand, had to fight Lucifer with like 3 demons. That is more impressive then the whole Devil Survivor crew working together and beating Lucifer. You can make the argument that they had a harder fight since there were other demons besides Lucifer, however saying that that will even up the playing field won’t match with me in my eyes. The demons are clearly inferior to Lucifer himself, as a matter of fact the boss battle mainly focuses on him as far as I remember. The extra demons are just minor annoyances that they face. Shouldn’t be something as extreme as Demifiend taking on Lucifer with just like mere 3 demons when you have a crew of humans with their own separate demons to aid you.
However my last point is based based on more subjective thinking. I think the argument for looking at it like an actual game can have valid arguments as well. So mainly it’s up to you how you decide it. If you think they will follow similarly like the gameplay because the media there in is a game, then that is perfectly fine. If you don’t, then that is also fine.
Technically I didn’t even debunk your last point, because the games are already so vague on how they would function in like real life, it’s merely about interpretation at this point. I can totally see why you believe Abel would beat Demifiend in a fight. So yeah I’ll leave it at that. Our opinions are formed on how we interpret the games, and since it’s already vague we cannot truly determine who is right or wrong.
Me personally? I think Demifiend is stronger then Abel, and would whoop him clean in a one on one fight. But when we are counting in their allies, it’s clear Abel got this in the bag. He’s got the number advantage, and with the number advantage he can make his teammates debuff Demifiend more then he can buff himself, so his might wouldn’t play a big factor here. It will still be hella difficult for them, but I definitely see them pulling it off.
But again, I feel like this is more how we interpret things rather then a clear black and white situation that would explain who would win for real. And like I said before you seem like an awesome guy and I hope I get to talk to you again soon.
What do you think?