User talk:Tathra

IV Stats
http://erikku.github.io/smt4tool/ lists a fusable demon's stats for IV.--JupiterKnight (talk) 02:58, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've had that page bookmarked since before the game was out, but its always been my policy to find out/confirm things first-hand before giving advice, pushing information, making claims, etc. Independent confirmation is always a good thing. Tathra (talk) 14:50, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

P2 Templates.
A while back, we had a discussion about the P2 stat templates, and the consensus was that we'd just use the IS template for both. See here.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:03, September 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, crap, I wish I'da known that earlier. Perhaps the EP template should be replaced with the IS template as a temp measure, and then deleted altogether once its not used anywhere?. Tathra (talk) 00:06, September 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, probably? I think we had planned to replace the EP template with the IS one than delete the EP one (as stated) but since we don't have anyone working on EP stuff, that never really happened. ._. If you think replacing the EP with the IS one would do until we get this sorted out, go ahead? Sorry if I can't help. I never really had to figure something like this before.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:48, September 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think everything I changed has been changed back. The IS template should be able to work with all the variant inputs (Type/Affinity, Traits/Personality, Null/Void, etc) so there shouldnt be any issues. I'll go ahead and change the EP template, but if deletion is the ultimate goal, maybe a subtle note can go into it with a suggestion that users do a quick edit to change it if they see it anywhere. Dunno if there's a way to see all the pages where a template is used, so manually combing through the pages would probably be the only way, and in that case some kind of noticeable difference would definitely help. That can be figured out some other time though. Tathra (talk) 01:02, September 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think since Type/Affinity, Traits/Personality, Null/Void etc are just different terms used for the same thing, we should just use one for consistany. I'd use the IS one, since it's a more recent translation and cleaned up in comparison and all? As for the EP template...I don't know. I guess combing through the pages is the only way to deal with it... Thanks for all the help btw.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:08, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Devil Survivor 2
And you used desu2 for the table? That's odd, althoug you're probably better off asking Bluerfn or Inpursuit. I also just noticed that the MediaWiki:Wikia.css and MediaWiki:Common.css have two different values entered for desu2, so I don't know what's going on there. Great Mara (talk) 04:26, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe it was when I proposed the color swatch for Desu2 to be switched from Blue to Pink. That was from my observation that DeSu2 publications by Atlus use the pink color rather than the blue. However, consensus was otherwise. I reverted the colors back in Common css but perhaps missed Wikia css. Thank you for pointing it out.  BLUER   一番   06:02, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Axe being Strike
Axes are counted as Strike in P3, not Slash, and clubs are included as the same weapon type (I think it's specifically called "Bludgeon" in P3 I think?)--Otherarrow (talk) 21:51, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Weird, but OK. On a related note, I suggest we change the "Skills" pages a little bit and only have the common to every game spells like (ma)agi/(ma)bufu/etc at the top and then have everything outside of those in-every-game spell in the specific games list. This may be how its intended anyway, but thats how I'm going to go about putting stuff onto the pages. Its easier to remove stuff if its common than to add more in later, plus having the full lists of spells for an element will make it easier to see how common a given spell is or if its been changed. Tathra (talk) 21:57, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that makes sense. If a skill is recurring, we should list it as such, and have the "moves unique to game" in their own sections. Like the spell pages, yes.--Otherarrow (talk) 22:12, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

P1 Support
Sorry for completely botching what was what for P1 for all this time. Goodness, I feel very stupid. In my defense, they don't specify what is what and it is basically guess work based on demon subtypes, but even with a specfic subtype, demons can still get skills that fall under their primary type. I hope you understand...--Otherarrow (talk) 17:45, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries man. I was just taking the types as listed somewhere else because, as far as I can tell, there isnt really an easy way to test in-game which type anything is, so sorting by the icon a skill uses is most convenient way (at least unless some serious testing is done). Tathra (talk)

Lugh
Lugh and Ildanch are different Personas in Eternal Punishment, yes. Do note that they are of different arcana. I think that Ildanach mutates into Lugh?--Otherarrow (talk) 17:28, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * The FAQs on EP are pretty sparse on persona info, so I have no idea. Guess Lugh will just get 2 entries for his Eternal Punishment stats. Tathra (talk) 22:43, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Style of class "table p3"
Regarding your changes on Thebel Block: Why do you changed the style? It is not the one given by the classes "table p3"! If you want it the way you did, I suggest you ask for a change of the css rules.


 * Regarding the color changes? I'm going for consistency across the whole site for lists. See Club Zodiac, List of Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne Items, List of Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon Skills, etc. The site-wide theme for stuff like that is black at the top and individual entries in the game's theme color. Tathra (talk) 08:35, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Then please ask for a change of the css rules! Using inline css is not the way this should be done. Arkondi (talk) 08:40, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, as there's still a whole lot of tables that need to be changed to use the proper game's table, rather than being built from scratch right there, plus a bunch of demon pages that still need to be fixed to match the Manual of Style, so my priorities are elsewhere atm. At least a few lines of 'background-color:black' at the top are a million times easier to change later than the hundreds of lines I've had to erase when changing stuff to use 'class="table game" Tathra (talk) 08:47, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ts ts ts. Well ... do as you wish. My main interest are the data. Arkondi (talk) 08:58, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

To be honest I think the intention was the other way around, as per Heaven.  BLUER   一番   09:45, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Either way works, but bright colors like yellow and white can be painful to look at if there's tens of boxes in that color. But if its to be like that for every game, then most of the Persona 2 pages should be split, one for each game, so that it would remain impossible to accidentally look at the wrong game's list. IMO, for most of the games, it looks better with black-on-top; all but the super bright colors (yellow/white); its not like its my decision or anything though. Tathra (talk) 10:00, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * And whichever way its going to be, it needs to be consistent, not like the yellow-on-top of Heaven, but then black-on-top for many of the other Persona 4 dungeons, seemingly chosen at random. Not everything on the site has to be the same way (for example, the game-color-on-top for the demon listings on the Race pages is fine because all the Race pages are like that), but all the dungeon enemy lists need to be done the same way, all the List of (game) Demons lists need to be done the same way, all the List of (game) Skills need to be done the same way, etc, otherwise it looks sloppy and unprofessional. Tathra (talk) 10:31, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * That consistency as the tables in "Heaven" is intended for every single table in this wiki. It was made so hyperlinks will not get obscured because of the colored boxes. Unfortunately, that has not been done yet - hopefully some day this would be given attention.  BLUER   一番   02:00, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

I wish I could've read something saying that a long time ago, since obviously a guideline of "when not stated in the Manual of Style, follow the example of how things are already done" has only made things significantly worse. Tathra (talk) 02:24, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * I know, we try to get all the unwritten policies recorded as much as possible. I'm still guilty of not making a Help:Tables page.  BLUER   一番   03:59, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Deprecated attributes/tags; browser prefixes
Only as a hint:

Perhaps you should take a look at: http://de.community.wikia.com/wiki/Hilfe:HTML/5 (I can't find such a page in the english help pages)

Properties should also be given without a prefix. For example  don't need a prefix in modern browsers. That's why I see normal outer borders on List of Devil Survivor Demons, not rounded ones.


 * All I did there was put back what was exactly there before, I didnt really bother to look through how it was coded because my main concern was getting the tables themselves changed to use class="table game". If the DeSu games are to use borders around the tables, then the skills and titles tables need borders too, and I dont really want anything to do with those section right now to try to figure that out; I'm focused on the Persona and Persona 2 IS stuff because thats what I'm actually playing. Tathra (talk) 20:36, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

DSSH Stats
Somehow the Race category included in the template wasn't recognized by the software as a Category and become text under the template when used in pages ie Jack Frost and Loki.  BLUER   一番   01:05, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hey bro. Thank u! you helped me a lot! But I need to say that in SMT:20XX the status are HP, MP,  ATTACK, DEFENSE, MAGIC, SPEED, ELEMENT and WEAKNESS. how can I change it?

re: Michael's level
Yeah, I did a couple double-takes about the 6, but it was listed multiple times as that there, which was where I referenced levels. Maybe a typo on their end? --Zettaizetsubou (talk) 00:30, November 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * That absolutely has to be a typo on their part, since Michael is among the strongest of the divine/seraph race of the games he's in, and is the strongest Divine in Majin Tensei. I changed it to "60*" with a note, since _has_ to be 60-something, but we dont know exactly what it is. Tathra (talk) 00:49, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

SMT1
I think you're the one updating SMT1 info to reflect the English release? I just wanted to say, thanks for your work TwT///

I've been trying to update 1 + 2 demons using Orden's patches, but obviously it's a bit scattered. Any idea how much of 1 you've converted?

Don't worry, I won't edit over any 1 stuff. -- Usakoos (talk) 02:20, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * thanks; i'm updating everything as i play through it, so its a slow process (same with personas 1-3, from which i'm taking an extended break, on the order of a year or more). i think i might've gotten every demon around level 15 and below and all the skills and items available before tokyo gets nuked. it would be quicker if the virtual controls on iOS weren't so awful. if you're going to focus on a game, the best ways to do it are either to update everything as you play through, or to do everything at once after you've finished it and have access to the information on nearly everything, having been able to get most items and most demon info.


 * there's a good chance that SMT2 might get an english release for iOS as well though (guaranteed if 1 sells well), so keep that in mind. Tathra (talk)


 * I already beat 1, and most of 2 (I got stuck at the end). I'm basically just doing it as I go. 2 is even more tedious for me, because I'm doing maps haha... orz ;;; I don't own anything to play SMT1os on, sadly --Usakoos (talk) 03:59, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding this, while I've never thought to do it, you could probably cheat to get the money to try and buy them. Or, alternatively, I'm sure there's some kind of PAR code to increase money. I've never thought to do it, however. (this is referring to the SNES specifically) ~ Usakoos (talk) 13:36, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * eh, i'm just doing everything as i play through since its easier to do it that way and the work is distributed over time, and the names/descriptions need updated for the english release and checked to ensure all the stats are right anyway. any items i dont get through normal play, i just save, buy it, and then reset, so there's no real need to cheat. Tathra (talk) 21:05, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the "Antique" items, specifically :) Sorry. ~ Usakoos (talk) 01:57, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry but...
Demons in DDS and DDS2 are referred to by races in the English localizations as per interactions with Jack Frost. I'd try to correct the DDS2stats template myself but I don't really know how to work with the changes you've made. Great Mara (talk) 03:33, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * well, yeah, but in DDS the races are organized differently from how they usually are, so i feel they should be listed as "Class" or something else that points out that distinctness rather than "Race", since they're more listed by species (gods, guardians, etc) than races (fairy, yoma, tyrant, etc), arent they? Jack Frost really isnt really a Fiend no matter how you look at it, so it'd be really strange to have all these little minor demons listed on the Fiend race page. i've scrapped that series' race categorization by template for now, i was mostly just building on what was already there before you started deleting them a few minutes ago. i do feel they should be categorized by race as well though (which are definitely distinct from the usual races), but its not something thats urgent or critical in any way. Tathra (talk) 03:44, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the pain with DDS to be sure. But I can't even find the origin around here of the 'class' notation to begin with in those games. I've tried running through DDS and DDS2 chatting up the NPCs and reading everything I could but the closest thing I've found was the question "What race am I?" in the quiz game in DDS2. Although I believe the answer was Nether. Great Mara (talk) 03:48, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * i'm not sure where "Class" came from either and just went with it cuz its what was there. at any rate, the DDS races have more in commonm with the Devil Children "Types" than the traditional races. if they're to be categorized at all, they need to be distinct, since linking "Fiend Race" tries to associate stuff like SMT1 Law Hero, Pascal, Hell Biker, and a bunch of other demons that simply dont exist in the DDS universe. maybe we could use "Species" (Fiend Species, Nether Species, etc) or a similar synonym for them? Tathra (talk) 03:55, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I dunno. I wanted to keep it as close to what I found in-game as possible. Maybe tacking DDS on the end of the race name like 'Nether Race DDS'. Although I think I remember the races being slightly different between 1 and 2. I'll have to load things up later and look again. :S Great Mara (talk) 04:13, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * yeah, something like that might work. the best way to think of it is to think of the Orders in Persona 1 - even though they're called "Orders", they're still the same basic races as usual, so we link them directly to their respective race pages and use the same categories; its the opposite for DDS - they're called "Races" and use some of the same terms, but they're completely different and organized differently, so even if we have to make up our own term for categorizing, we need to do so for the sake of clarity. and a few demons changing races between games isnt a big deal, thats so common that we already list what race they are in each individual game, rather than by series. Tathra (talk) 04:22, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

KMT1 Drops
Are you sure you aren't getting your macca/mag numbers from groups v. solo demon? (I think those were your edits, anyway) - Usakoos (talk) 04:26, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * the ones i put in i got from solo fights (i havent gone very far into either KMT1 or 2, so it was only a few). i double checked the solo against multiple encounters and divided and they still came out the same. the only thing that'll be iffy is exp because its reduced or increased depending on relative levels. i still havent decided which game i'm going to resume playing or if i'll dive into KMT, but once i commit to KMT (since they're short enough to do in one go) i'll check everything again. Tathra (talk) 04:46, August 17, 2014 (UTC)

About Last Bible II demons:
I actually changed the names of some of the demons on the list because i checked its original names, the ones written in katakana, and they were mispelled. For example "Orobus" was originally written as "オロバス" which is "Orobasu", as well as "Vapor" whose name is "ヴェパル" or "Veparu". In fact i was about to change "Tagon" and link it to Dagon`s page, but in that case both of their names were different, with Tagon being actually タゴン (Tagon) and not ダゴン (Dagon). Im pretty sure though they are the same demon and "Tagon" was a mistake made by the creators of the game, but i decided not to change it just in case.

Im guessing some of the mispelling of the names comes from the translator of the patch not being a Megaten fan. Since Orobasu is pretty obvious that is Orobas and i think anyone who have played at least one or two megaten games would not commit the mistake of writing it as Orobus. Nevertheless i understand your point, i just wanted to explain you why i changed the names in the list.

Yafusa (talk) 07:01, September 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * you don't need to explain anything; its noted at the top that all the names are using what's in the patch, so especially with some of the difficulty in figuring some of them out due to little effort from the translator, the limitations of the gbc, and possible errors (i admit, linking dragon/zombie dragon to seiryuu is a complete guess based on zombie seiryuu being in demikids), its more helpful when people playing it with the patch can actually find out whats what. Tathra (talk) 07:45, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Templates and Category:Demons
Please don't add Category:Demons to stat templates. Specific game demon categories already branch off from the Demons category and it messes up the branching. Great Mara (talk) 03:11, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * i added it to the templates per this cleanup list. since the page was updated a few days ago, i'm assuming its something Bluerfn wants done. Tathra (talk) 03:18, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * That really makes no sense. The categories are supposed to branch out, not get all clumped together. I'll ask them about it. Great Mara (talk) 03:21, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * i agree. having a category for all demons to be able to get a full listing of all of them and search alphabetically would be nice, but it shouldnt be a root category. at least categories added through the stat templates are much more fluid and get updated automatically when anybody edits the page (when did that change? it used to update the categories automatically) rather than having to do each individual page, so it'll be easy to fix or change. Tathra (talk) 03:28, October 2, 2014 (UTC)

There's already a category for Neutral Demons in Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Neutral_Demons_in_Shin_Megami_Tensei:_IMAGINE


 * they should be "Category:(alignment) Demons in Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE" not "Category:(alignment) Demons in Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE", but i dont really feel like doing all 300+ pages right now. and please do not add hard categories when they're added by templates because it makes changing/updating/deleting categories that much harder and they'll just need to be deleted anyway. Tathra (talk) 06:25, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Tabber and Tabview
Hey, I've noticed that you've changed quite some P1 lists to use Tabview. But the thing is... Tabview doesn't work in Monobook, only in Wikia. Should we change it to Tabber (which works on both) or are we supposed to assume that everyone uses Wikia instead of Monobook? G.A.S.A (talk) 01:12, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * tabview doesn't work in monobook? ugh, crap. i hate using tabber because its incredibly slow to load, but if tabview doesn't always work, that doesn't leave much choice, does it? since they both use javascript, i cant imagine why one would work but the other wouldn't (if you have JS disabled using NoScript or something similar, neither should work), so that sounds like a pretty major flaw that the people in charge of wikia need to work on. let me finish what i'm doing now and then i'll do some research and try to figure out whats going on. Tathra (talk) 01:22, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is what happens when using tabview in Monobook. The new template is loaded right under the ones already there instead of changing places. Tabber works perfectly fine for me, so it's probably a flaw that the Wikia staff need to work on. G.A.S.A (talk) 01:34, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * sheesh, its been broken since 2011 at least. it looks like something they don't plan on ever fixing, so i guess we'll have to change all instances of tabview over to use tabber instead. thanks for bringing this to my attention. Tathra (talk) 01:58, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * They've stopped support for Monobook ever since they roll out the Wikia skin. I dunno if there's a way to get tabview to work from the monobook.js page but if there is, we'll gladly implement them.  BLUER   一番   02:20, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

Weak Template
I don't know how you can say it works fine when I can literally scroll past and barely see the words there. Not to mention the drop shadow effect doesn't work at all against black backgrounds. As it is the template puts more strain on my eyes than the white does. Not to mention dark text on dark backgrounds is a generally poor design choice. Great Mara (talk) 05:14, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * your screen must display differently from mine because it looks better on black backgrounds to me than it does on the yellow-ish-orange used for the SMT4 template (the shadow effect actually makes it harder to make out). the only time its a little difficult to see is when contrasted against the bright yellow of P4, but everywhere else it looks fine. Tathra (talk) 05:20, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * My brightness is all the way up and the best template I make actually make the words out against is the PQ template. Try to look against the P3 and P4 cells and I can hardly see the word. Great Mara (talk) 05:22, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * brightness wouldn't make a difference, it'd have to be some kind of difference in color or tint settings. is anybody else having trouble seeing it? Tathra (talk) 05:28, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not that I know of. Great Mara (talk) 05:33, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * see if you can find your Contrast settings, it is a bit difficult to make out at low contrast, but at middle contrast (usually the default setting) it stands out just fine. its not that dark of a red, so it shouldn't really blend in with black, but it might not hurt to bump up the template's color brightness a tiny bit to make it stand out more. the shadow should keep it visible against the orange SMT4 color even if it is brightened a tiny bit. maybe tone down your brightness a little bit too. if its at max you might not really see blacks at all, just bright grey. Tathra (talk) 05:45, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * The only things I've been able to find is the brightness settings. Found something for gamma and contrast but it was acting like I needed a desktop monitor to do it. Great Mara (talk) 17:54, December 17, 2014 (UTC)

Lucia
I just realized I edited this page almost immediately after you and that it was only by chance (I meant no offense). Feel free to revert my edits if you want. Or nevermind, looks like it wasn't the section you edited anyway.--N00bKing (talk) 10:11, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * yeah, your edit had nothing to do with mine, i was just adding her last Persona Q skill. i stick more to the data-entry and page-standardization stuff than messing around with profiles and such anyway. Tathra (talk) 10:14, December 17, 2014 (UTC)

why do you keep deleting the resistances?
Because in game Pallas it's signs as weak, non vunlerable. For istance in game indra is signs as vulnerable to nuclear, Athena is weak to what she is weak to. In addition the vunlerablility filed was empty when i change the template, and also Lucifer, modified by G.A.S.A. recently haven't the vunlerability field, as he is weak to what he's weak to and not vulnerable. I don't understand why you are scolding me, when I'm sticking with what other users and the infos in game say. Marvok1 (talk) 00:46, December 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * what are you talking about? Pallas Athena already showed that it was Weak, and you deleted that as well as that it reflected physical. just like yesterday when you were changing "Weak" to "Vulnerable". stop changing things that are already correct. if you don't understand what the words mean, then leave them alone. i'm really having a hard time believing you're not trolling. stop being disruptive - stop changing "Weak" to "Vulnerable", and stop deleting or changing things that are already correct. Tathra (talk) 00:55, December 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm really don't understand if your trolling me or what. Before I edited the page, like I said in the Pallas Athena talk page, there was no information whatnot about her resistence, waekness and all the rest, I added them, so there were no "corrected informations". Since I couldn't find the weakness field in the visual mode (sorry, I don't know as it writes in english, since I see it in italian) and I didn't known about the source code mode (the same for visual mode, I don't know as it writes in english) and I needed this field, I simply recreate the template starting from the one here in the visual mode. I dont' see any vunlerability filed in the standard template, so I didn't add it then since I didn't need it to rappresente the stats of Athena. I don't see the weakness field in all the the personae\demons template of p1 (and if so was not I wouldn't need to edit the template), and weakness is far more common than vunlerability. I'm missing some rule? Weakness filed is option but not the vulnerability one? Then why there is NO vunlerability filed in lucifer template (go and see it for yourself, I didn't touched the page and yet there isn't) and that is OK? If I'm missing some rule, then let me know, because I can't really understand what I'm doing wrong :\ Marvok1 (talk) 01:13, December 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * click this. this is before your edit. then click this. this is after your edit. you deleted that she was weak to Element and Force and deleted that she repelled 50% physical. you're also not using Visual Editor because the history shows it changes were made with the visual editor, and even if you were using it you'd be able to see whats there. deny it all you want, but those are the facts, which means not only are you being disruptive, but you're lying about it too. Tathra (talk) 01:24, December 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Maybe I made some mistake when editing the template to adjust the skills' learning levels and I don't recognize it, since i really have little experience with the wiki world. But if i really wanted to be distruptive why the hell I woulded bother to update the infos and rewrite the template from the source page (And it took me a while since it was the first time and i really don't know what exactly to do) after that (and as you see the filed about weakness e so on are filled after my second edit, and more complete that in the original page)? If I really wanted to be distruptive I woulded really throw away my time taking videos of the levels difference to prove that my informations were correct and not lies so that I could avoided to be accused by someone to be in bad fiath? I don't think so. I'm tired to be accused to be in bad faith by you, and it goes on from yestarday, to want the bad for this wiki, when I all want is to help it out, adding missing infos and correcting the incorrect ones. And the slowly adding I'm doing are the prove it. If I was a troll I woulded vandalize the wiki, not adding infos. That said, if you think the contrary, then ban my IP so that I can no more have access, so we can put an end to this. Marvok1 (talk) 01:48, December 30, 2014 (UTC)

Persona - Weak/Vulnerable
Can you tell me what the difference is between Weak and Vulnerable? I can't find anything in FAQs online and I don't have any good files to check things on in my PSP copy at the moment. Great Mara (talk) 21:26, January 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * from what G.A.S.A said, vulnerable means they take 125% damage and weak is 200-300%. i'd always wondered what the difference was myself since the game doesn't make it clear what the difference is, just that there is one.  Tathra (talk) 21:38, January 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's what I believed at first, but it turns out that Vulnerable is 125% while Weak is anything higher than that. The game lists Ouroboros as Weak to Element and Force and he takes 150% damage from those attacks. The game registers damage percentages as multiples of 25, from 0 to 250, and there demons listed as Weak to something while taking 150%-250% damage, but a Demon who is Vulnerable always takes 125% damage. G.A.S.A (talk) 21:59, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

Abbreviation bullets
I thought I remembered visual mode moving the bullets occassionally, but the test I just tried didn't do anything. Although I'm not sure why someone would manually move the bullets around. Great Mara (talk) 20:59, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * i could understand if it was a quirk of the visual editor, but the history doesn't show that visual editor was used any of the times its happened. even if they were changed from abbr titles to full line titles, moving the asterix moved to a new line would still mess up the pages, showing a bullet instead of indicating mouse-over info. i could understand it happening once or twice just from not checking the preview, but one user a few months back i think edited at least 5 or 6 of the arcana pages and did it on every single one, and the effects of moving them to a new line is so blatantly obvious that it can't really be missed if you actually use preview, so that just leaves 2 possible conclusions - intentional vandalism or the arrogance to never preview edits. Tathra (talk) 21:09, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

Module:Skills
My boss has blocked some of the office internet access so I can't edit all modules in Wikia. I spelt incorrectly the Lua newline markup, it should be. The Fusion spell name appears black on the black background in P3stat template because of the P3 style table class, to undo that you should add "color:#fff" to Module:Skills -. -- Inpursuit (talk) 01:23, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * done. i'm starting to get an idea of how to use the lua code, but the skills module is almost compatible with everything already. (might just need a new variable - element - for demikids and thats about it) Tathra (talk) 01:39, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you want to add "element" then it's pretty much the same for "cost" and you just add 2 new returns of rows for Demikids, although I do wonder why such information can't be just written in the "effect" or use the "level" column instead (I assume all allied demons in Demikid have access to all skills instantly). -- Inpursuit (talk) 08:20, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I modified module:skills (in order to reduce the if parser functions in the stats template) without realizing that you "hacked" the table row style for Persona 1/2 persona stats. I pretty much fixed P2 stats templates, but I think you may want to add something to the module without relying on that hack. I attempted to fix P1stats myself but I think i wouldn't be able to make any good progress before discussing with you. -- Inpursuit (talk) 12:46, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * i'm not sure what you mean. the skill lists for the p1 and 2 stat templates should be the same as the other games, its just that instead of having all numbers, there need to be #?s for skills learned at unknown ranks and '#i's for inheritable skills.  what do you mean by 'hack'? Tathra (talk) 17:54, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * I fixed P1stats before bed and I think it should work well now. The hack I mentioned is the style def before the invoke of module Skills which now no longer works and has been removed by me from all stats templates. You may check if you like the style of P1 inheritable skill and if you want to tweak it some more. -- Inpursuit (talk) 00:14, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

I never have touched the DemiKids or Devil Children series so I wonder whether module:Skills/DMK is incomplete or the skill list isn't actually for template:DKstats which causes the so many error pages with similar unrecognized skill names like "Fire Breath". -- Inpursuit (talk) 06:46, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * its way incomplete. none of the skills (hp cost abilities) have been added to the list.  Tathra (talk) 14:08, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * well, all of the skills have been added to the list (except for combos and powers but those aren't necessary yet), but its still returning errors so the module must not be coded right to handle the extra input or something. Module:Skills/DMK is definitely for Template:DKstats, so that can't be the problem. Tathra (talk) 18:24, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

I think I have fixed module:Skills of the "element1/2" variables error which previously plagued articles transcluding DKstats template. If you want to learn Scribunto (the Lua engine installed into the wiki software with some limitation imposed and adjustment), I recommend you to read which is specifically written for coding Lua in wiki with concise examples of codes. Other conventional references/manuals of Lua are very obscure to the point that their examples will not be applicable in Scribunto. -- Inpursuit (talk) 15:36, January 29, 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry about the Mag/CP. I mistook that demon requires mag for the initial summon, it turns out to be costing money instead. Because the money required is simply (demon level * 32) which can be easily handled by math expression in the module. CP on the other hand is (demon level /2 'round off decimal' + 2). Do you want me to add that to the stat template?-- Inpursuit (talk) 04:29, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

its alright, i need to start getting in there and messing around so i can start learning it anyway. its hard with something thats already so complex though, and the stuff i really want to do will be a while before i can learn enough to do it. it probably wouldn't hurt to have summoning cost in there, but since its based on level its probably predictable enough to not be necessary.


 * Magdrop on the other hand seems to be (level * 20). -- Inpursuit (talk) 05:07, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

since so many stat templates are practically identical (SMT1-if+20XX+9, P3-5, Devil Children sans demikids, LB1-3, DDS1-2, etc), i'm sure there should be a way to have all the similar share the same lua code instead of having to make each one individually (eg, SMTstats|1 or Pstats|5 instead of [game]stats for every one), so see if you can make that work. some games will still need their own individual coding, but instead of like 40 different ones it could probalby be cut down to 10-15 or so. Tathra (talk) 04:55, February 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * True. I think it's a better idea to make it like module:Gamebox so the "class" argument can simply decide which style and format to be loaded but it might take time to do so. Best this should not require much change in the demon articles, but it's likely we would still need to change the template name and add the class parameter in the demon articles like we do with Charbox. -- Inpursuit (talk) 05:07, February 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * If you wanna learn Lua/Scribunto, the Wikiversity tutorial I gave you earlier is a go. You can start a module:sandbox and play with it (if you wanna try it in Wikipedia which is technically the same, you should start your own sandbox at or something like that.) -- Inpursuit (talk)  06:15, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

i've started reading a little bit. the examples there are all too obvious and simple to be of any use to me though. i just need to finish reading through the reference manual, which i'll eventually do, i'm just being really lazy about it. Tathra (talk) 06:30, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

P3 and Lua
Saw your comment about P3 skills being set to go with Lua. Is there anything written up about how to use Lua when implementing templates? I'm done with most of the Shadows in the Journey aside from the Adamah Block on up, but I've still got to go through The Answer and may need to add more stat templates. Great Mara (talk) 02:01, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * its already implemented in the template, all you have to do is put in the skill name like usual (no need to input cost or effects). for any enemy- or boss-exclusive skills that aren't already on the list (they'll return a script error), just add them at Module:Skills/P3. Tathra (talk) 02:13, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay. I noticed things like Boss=- on Nyx Avatar's page. Do I need to do something similar for the normal Shadows, Tartarus, Guardians, or Answer guardians? And can you change the skill descriptions freely without negatively affecting anything? I may need to tweak the fusion skill descriptions or others to be more similar to the game's later. Great Mara (talk) 02:17, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * One final thing that slipped my mind, I've been having to use skill slots to denote a Shadow's/Enemies' regular attack type. Slash/Strike/Pierce Attack, with a description of 'Normal attack using the Slash/Strike/Pierce' attribute. And Jin has a Fire Attack due to his grenades. Sorry for the double message. Great Mara (talk) 02:21, January 20, 2015 (UTC)


 * its set to only show descriptions if there's anything in the Boss, HP, or SP inputs, which should cover all shadows just fine without needing to do anything (Boss is mostly just to use "Category:[game] Bosses" instead of "Category:[game] Shadows/Demons/Personas/whatever" so just use that for bosses). and yeah, you can edit anything within the apostrophes or quotes without changing anything except that skill's cost or description; skills input into the templates have to match exactly whats in the Module:Skills list, so those are the only thing that changing would cause problems (though it can be made to work with alternate names). anything thats not on the list will return a script error, so they just need to be added; eventually they'll show up here and somebody will add them. Tathra (talk) 02:34, January 20, 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how well trying to add these to the module myself is going, I'm trying to add the following before their basic skill type, but when I preview the changes, the darker black box is only surrounding what I changed and everything else is all mashed up. I'm not sure if that's because my browser isn't letting me use the tab key or what. This is what I'm trying to add:

['Slash Attack'] = { cost = '-', effect = 'Normal attack using the Slash attribute.', },

['Strike Attack'] = { cost = '-', effect = 'Normal attack using the Strike attribute.', },

['Pierce Attack'] = { cost = '-', effect = 'Normal attack using the Pierce attribute.', },

['Fire Attack'] = { cost = '-', effect = 'Normal attack using the Fire attribute.', }, And it figures I can't even get it to display right on here. =_= Great Mara (talk) 02:56, January 20, 2015 (UTC)


 * Originally there was a script editor enabling indentation by tab but it's now nowhere to be found. When I edit the module, I usually copy the whole code to Notepad++ and set the language to Lua which is far more readable unless I only do minor edit. -- Inpursuit (talk) 03:07, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * don't worry about what it shows on preview; that's how the wiki would normally interpret it; it has to get published before it shows it colored for lua. i usually just copy a skill and edit the interior and it usually works fine. i got those added for you and finished up all the alternate HP costs for vanilla P3, so everything should be good. Tathra (talk) 03:24, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've tried Inpursuit's trick and it seems to work from previews. Only other normal attack skills that I know come from the special fused weapons but I don't think anything uses those where it needs to be mentioned so I'll hold off on those unless I see them later. Great Mara (talk) 03:42, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just noticed that GreatMara means the preview. Yes, the preview is a mess. Actually wikia's implementation of Lua is somehow immature. It's functional, but the editing and management tools for wikia editors are not quite ready. For example, you can't add documentation and categories like in Wikipedia (e.g. ). The current method of adding commented category in the module page works, but a horribly bad practice, the category is not linked. -- Inpursuit (talk) 03:56, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

IIRC, no Persona in the P3 participates in more than 1 fusion spell. If that's the case, I recommend removing FSkill2/3 from P3stat template which will improve performance. -- Inpursuit (talk) 04:16, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

King Abaddon Skills
Just so you know, I described the skills because there's no ingame description of the Boss skills in the game. Only what can be seen and I wasn't sure if I should add the special details about the skill in them, like some chase Raidou, or Money Rain ends with a giant coin landing and a empty space Raidou must reach to escape harm. Some normal skills likewise have their effects changed when used by bosses, like Lucifers maragidyne hits the entire field. There's some more Boss skills as well, but I need to go back and plays the game to add them.--JupiterKnight (talk) 05:18, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * this seems to be the game with the most boss-exclusive skills, which makes it really suck that there's no in-game description. stuff like persistent, chasing, and unblockable/undodgeable be noted in the skill descriptions, but i'm not sure about stuff like safe spots should (partly because i can't think of an elegant, concise way to say it), that can go in a Strategy section (dodging and finding safe spots is part of normal action-game gameplay).  different effects when used by bosses is easy to do, we just need to know which ones use the stronger versions (i'll put them as [Skill] (Boss) and when thats put into the template it'll display as [Skill] and show the boss version description).  Tathra (talk) 06:18, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Vanilla P3 Zio and Bufu
Where are the cost adjustments coming from for the Ice and Electricity elemental skills for the normal Persona 3? I'm asking because the DoubleJump guide is written to P3 and it lists the same skill costs as FES. Great Mara (talk) 00:39, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * that's what they were listed as here on the wiki when i combined the P3 Skills list and P3FES Skills list. i'll fix them on the module list. are the HP costs correct? Tathra (talk) 00:48, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Vorpal Blade is listed in the guide with a cost of 30% HP, Akasha Arts as 26% HP, God's Hand as 20% HP, Twin Shot as 14%, Arrow Rain as 26% HP, and Myriad Arrows as 26% HP. Another thing I've been wondering about is the double jump guide and other FAQ listing Regenerate 1/2/3 as 5/10/15% HP restoration for P3. I haven't been able to get a copy of P3 to check all of these thoug. Great Mara (talk) 00:58, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

Race link in Stats template
The race parameter in the GMTstats template links to "xxx Race" which then redirects to the race article. It would be preferable to link it directly to the race article without going through the "xxx Race" redirect.  BLUER   一番   18:41, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * all of them are like that since a few of the race pages are "[Race] (race)" [like "Zealot (race)" and "Reaper (race)"]. the only way to do it without using the redirects is to use #switch to specify all the "[Race] (race)" race pages.  Tathra (talk) 18:48, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it works now there's only a handful of Race pages with the "(race)" in the title that needs to be linked from this template.  BLUER   一番   19:49, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * i figured a better way to do it would be to change " #ifexist: Race" to "#ifexist: (race)" in the games that require it instead of naming the (race) ones individually, which is probably the best way for SMT4 which has almost all of the ones that need [Race] (race). should take care of it fine.  i'm still finding demon pages with "|Race= race" so those need to be fixed, or a second #ifexist is needed.  strangely, the page for the Avatar race is "Avatar (race)" even though "Avatar" just links to "Avatar (race)", but if that can't be renamed then that one can just be added as a #switch.  Tathra (talk) 19:58, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * If the Avatar term doesn't refer to anything else than the race within the whole MegaTen, we might as well rename "Avatar (race)" to "Avatar".  BLUER   一番   20:18, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * the only other thing i can think of is the Avatar Totem/Material Card for Vishnu, but that doesn't need its own page, just a note at the top of the Avatar page. Tathra (talk) 20:22, January 22, 2015 (UTC)