User talk:Tathra

IV Stats
http://erikku.github.io/smt4tool/ lists a fusable demon's stats for IV.--JupiterKnight (talk) 02:58, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've had that page bookmarked since before the game was out, but its always been my policy to find out/confirm things first-hand before giving advice, pushing information, making claims, etc. Independent confirmation is always a good thing. Tathra (talk) 14:50, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

P2 Templates.
A while back, we had a discussion about the P2 stat templates, and the consensus was that we'd just use the IS template for both. See here.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:03, September 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, crap, I wish I'da known that earlier. Perhaps the EP template should be replaced with the IS template as a temp measure, and then deleted altogether once its not used anywhere?. Tathra (talk) 00:06, September 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, probably? I think we had planned to replace the EP template with the IS one than delete the EP one (as stated) but since we don't have anyone working on EP stuff, that never really happened. ._. If you think replacing the EP with the IS one would do until we get this sorted out, go ahead? Sorry if I can't help. I never really had to figure something like this before.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:48, September 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think everything I changed has been changed back. The IS template should be able to work with all the variant inputs (Type/Affinity, Traits/Personality, Null/Void, etc) so there shouldnt be any issues. I'll go ahead and change the EP template, but if deletion is the ultimate goal, maybe a subtle note can go into it with a suggestion that users do a quick edit to change it if they see it anywhere. Dunno if there's a way to see all the pages where a template is used, so manually combing through the pages would probably be the only way, and in that case some kind of noticeable difference would definitely help. That can be figured out some other time though. Tathra (talk) 01:02, September 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think since Type/Affinity, Traits/Personality, Null/Void etc are just different terms used for the same thing, we should just use one for consistany. I'd use the IS one, since it's a more recent translation and cleaned up in comparison and all? As for the EP template...I don't know. I guess combing through the pages is the only way to deal with it... Thanks for all the help btw.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:08, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Devil Survivor 2
And you used desu2 for the table? That's odd, althoug you're probably better off asking Bluerfn or Inpursuit. I also just noticed that the MediaWiki:Wikia.css and MediaWiki:Common.css have two different values entered for desu2, so I don't know what's going on there. Great Mara (talk) 04:26, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe it was when I proposed the color swatch for Desu2 to be switched from Blue to Pink. That was from my observation that DeSu2 publications by Atlus use the pink color rather than the blue. However, consensus was otherwise. I reverted the colors back in Common css but perhaps missed Wikia css. Thank you for pointing it out.  BLUER   一番   06:02, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Axe being Strike
Axes are counted as Strike in P3, not Slash, and clubs are included as the same weapon type (I think it's specifically called "Bludgeon" in P3 I think?)--Otherarrow (talk) 21:51, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Weird, but OK. On a related note, I suggest we change the "Skills" pages a little bit and only have the common to every game spells like (ma)agi/(ma)bufu/etc at the top and then have everything outside of those in-every-game spell in the specific games list. This may be how its intended anyway, but thats how I'm going to go about putting stuff onto the pages. Its easier to remove stuff if its common than to add more in later, plus having the full lists of spells for an element will make it easier to see how common a given spell is or if its been changed. Tathra (talk) 21:57, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that makes sense. If a skill is recurring, we should list it as such, and have the "moves unique to game" in their own sections. Like the spell pages, yes.--Otherarrow (talk) 22:12, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

P1 Support
Sorry for completely botching what was what for P1 for all this time. Goodness, I feel very stupid. In my defense, they don't specify what is what and it is basically guess work based on demon subtypes, but even with a specfic subtype, demons can still get skills that fall under their primary type. I hope you understand...--Otherarrow (talk) 17:45, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries man. I was just taking the types as listed somewhere else because, as far as I can tell, there isnt really an easy way to test in-game which type anything is, so sorting by the icon a skill uses is most convenient way (at least unless some serious testing is done). Tathra (talk)

Lugh
Lugh and Ildanch are different Personas in Eternal Punishment, yes. Do note that they are of different arcana. I think that Ildanach mutates into Lugh?--Otherarrow (talk) 17:28, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * The FAQs on EP are pretty sparse on persona info, so I have no idea. Guess Lugh will just get 2 entries for his Eternal Punishment stats. Tathra (talk) 22:43, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Style of class "table p3"
Regarding your changes on Thebel Block: Why do you changed the style? It is not the one given by the classes "table p3"! If you want it the way you did, I suggest you ask for a change of the css rules.


 * Regarding the color changes? I'm going for consistency across the whole site for lists. See Club Zodiac, List of Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne Items, List of Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon Skills, etc. The site-wide theme for stuff like that is black at the top and individual entries in the game's theme color. Tathra (talk) 08:35, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Then please ask for a change of the css rules! Using inline css is not the way this should be done. Arkondi (talk) 08:40, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, as there's still a whole lot of tables that need to be changed to use the proper game's table, rather than being built from scratch right there, plus a bunch of demon pages that still need to be fixed to match the Manual of Style, so my priorities are elsewhere atm. At least a few lines of 'background-color:black' at the top are a million times easier to change later than the hundreds of lines I've had to erase when changing stuff to use 'class="table game" Tathra (talk) 08:47, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ts ts ts. Well ... do as you wish. My main interest are the data. Arkondi (talk) 08:58, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

To be honest I think the intention was the other way around, as per Heaven.  BLUER   一番   09:45, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Either way works, but bright colors like yellow and white can be painful to look at if there's tens of boxes in that color. But if its to be like that for every game, then most of the Persona 2 pages should be split, one for each game, so that it would remain impossible to accidentally look at the wrong game's list. IMO, for most of the games, it looks better with black-on-top; all but the super bright colors (yellow/white); its not like its my decision or anything though. Tathra (talk) 10:00, September 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * And whichever way its going to be, it needs to be consistent, not like the yellow-on-top of Heaven, but then black-on-top for many of the other Persona 4 dungeons, seemingly chosen at random. Not everything on the site has to be the same way (for example, the game-color-on-top for the demon listings on the Race pages is fine because all the Race pages are like that), but all the dungeon enemy lists need to be done the same way, all the List of (game) Demons lists need to be done the same way, all the List of (game) Skills need to be done the same way, etc, otherwise it looks sloppy and unprofessional. Tathra (talk) 10:31, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * That consistency as the tables in "Heaven" is intended for every single table in this wiki. It was made so hyperlinks will not get obscured because of the colored boxes. Unfortunately, that has not been done yet - hopefully some day this would be given attention.  BLUER   一番   02:00, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

I wish I could've read something saying that a long time ago, since obviously a guideline of "when not stated in the Manual of Style, follow the example of how things are already done" has only made things significantly worse. Tathra (talk) 02:24, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * I know, we try to get all the unwritten policies recorded as much as possible. I'm still guilty of not making a Help:Tables page.  BLUER   一番   03:59, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Deprecated attributes/tags; browser prefixes
Only as a hint:

Perhaps you should take a look at: http://de.community.wikia.com/wiki/Hilfe:HTML/5 (I can't find such a page in the english help pages)

Properties should also be given without a prefix. For example  don't need a prefix in modern browsers. That's why I see normal outer borders on List of Devil Survivor Demons, not rounded ones.


 * All I did there was put back what was exactly there before, I didnt really bother to look through how it was coded because my main concern was getting the tables themselves changed to use class="table game". If the DeSu games are to use borders around the tables, then the skills and titles tables need borders too, and I dont really want anything to do with those section right now to try to figure that out; I'm focused on the Persona and Persona 2 IS stuff because thats what I'm actually playing. Tathra (talk) 20:36, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

DSSH Stats
Somehow the Race category included in the template wasn't recognized by the software as a Category and become text under the template when used in pages ie Jack Frost and Loki.  BLUER   一番   01:05, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hey bro. Thank u! you helped me a lot! But I need to say that in SMT:20XX the status are HP, MP,  ATTACK, DEFENSE, MAGIC, SPEED, ELEMENT and WEAKNESS. how can I change it?

re: Michael's level
Yeah, I did a couple double-takes about the 6, but it was listed multiple times as that there, which was where I referenced levels. Maybe a typo on their end? --Zettaizetsubou (talk) 00:30, November 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * That absolutely has to be a typo on their part, since Michael is among the strongest of the divine/seraph race of the games he's in, and is the strongest Divine in Majin Tensei. I changed it to "60*" with a note, since _has_ to be 60-something, but we dont know exactly what it is. Tathra (talk) 00:49, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

SMT1
I think you're the one updating SMT1 info to reflect the English release? I just wanted to say, thanks for your work TwT///

I've been trying to update 1 + 2 demons using Orden's patches, but obviously it's a bit scattered. Any idea how much of 1 you've converted?

Don't worry, I won't edit over any 1 stuff. -- Usakoos (talk) 02:20, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * thanks; i'm updating everything as i play through it, so its a slow process (same with personas 1-3, from which i'm taking an extended break, on the order of a year or more). i think i might've gotten every demon around level 15 and below and all the skills and items available before tokyo gets nuked. it would be quicker if the virtual controls on iOS weren't so awful. if you're going to focus on a game, the best ways to do it are either to update everything as you play through, or to do everything at once after you've finished it and have access to the information on nearly everything, having been able to get most items and most demon info.


 * there's a good chance that SMT2 might get an english release for iOS as well though (guaranteed if 1 sells well), so keep that in mind. Tathra (talk)


 * I already beat 1, and most of 2 (I got stuck at the end). I'm basically just doing it as I go. 2 is even more tedious for me, because I'm doing maps haha... orz ;;; I don't own anything to play SMT1os on, sadly --Usakoos (talk) 03:59, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding this, while I've never thought to do it, you could probably cheat to get the money to try and buy them. Or, alternatively, I'm sure there's some kind of PAR code to increase money. I've never thought to do it, however. (this is referring to the SNES specifically) ~ Usakoos (talk) 13:36, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * eh, i'm just doing everything as i play through since its easier to do it that way and the work is distributed over time, and the names/descriptions need updated for the english release and checked to ensure all the stats are right anyway. any items i dont get through normal play, i just save, buy it, and then reset, so there's no real need to cheat. Tathra (talk) 21:05, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the "Antique" items, specifically :) Sorry. ~ Usakoos (talk) 01:57, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry but...
Demons in DDS and DDS2 are referred to by races in the English localizations as per interactions with Jack Frost. I'd try to correct the DDS2stats template myself but I don't really know how to work with the changes you've made. Great Mara (talk) 03:33, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * well, yeah, but in DDS the races are organized differently from how they usually are, so i feel they should be listed as "Class" or something else that points out that distinctness rather than "Race", since they're more listed by species (gods, guardians, etc) than races (fairy, yoma, tyrant, etc), arent they? Jack Frost really isnt really a Fiend no matter how you look at it, so it'd be really strange to have all these little minor demons listed on the Fiend race page. i've scrapped that series' race categorization by template for now, i was mostly just building on what was already there before you started deleting them a few minutes ago. i do feel they should be categorized by race as well though (which are definitely distinct from the usual races), but its not something thats urgent or critical in any way. Tathra (talk) 03:44, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the pain with DDS to be sure. But I can't even find the origin around here of the 'class' notation to begin with in those games. I've tried running through DDS and DDS2 chatting up the NPCs and reading everything I could but the closest thing I've found was the question "What race am I?" in the quiz game in DDS2. Although I believe the answer was Nether. Great Mara (talk) 03:48, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * i'm not sure where "Class" came from either and just went with it cuz its what was there. at any rate, the DDS races have more in commonm with the Devil Children "Types" than the traditional races. if they're to be categorized at all, they need to be distinct, since linking "Fiend Race" tries to associate stuff like SMT1 Law Hero, Pascal, Hell Biker, and a bunch of other demons that simply dont exist in the DDS universe. maybe we could use "Species" (Fiend Species, Nether Species, etc) or a similar synonym for them? Tathra (talk) 03:55, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I dunno. I wanted to keep it as close to what I found in-game as possible. Maybe tacking DDS on the end of the race name like 'Nether Race DDS'. Although I think I remember the races being slightly different between 1 and 2. I'll have to load things up later and look again. :S Great Mara (talk) 04:13, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * yeah, something like that might work. the best way to think of it is to think of the Orders in Persona 1 - even though they're called "Orders", they're still the same basic races as usual, so we link them directly to their respective race pages and use the same categories; its the opposite for DDS - they're called "Races" and use some of the same terms, but they're completely different and organized differently, so even if we have to make up our own term for categorizing, we need to do so for the sake of clarity. and a few demons changing races between games isnt a big deal, thats so common that we already list what race they are in each individual game, rather than by series. Tathra (talk) 04:22, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

KMT1 Drops
Are you sure you aren't getting your macca/mag numbers from groups v. solo demon? (I think those were your edits, anyway) - Usakoos (talk) 04:26, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * the ones i put in i got from solo fights (i havent gone very far into either KMT1 or 2, so it was only a few). i double checked the solo against multiple encounters and divided and they still came out the same. the only thing that'll be iffy is exp because its reduced or increased depending on relative levels. i still havent decided which game i'm going to resume playing or if i'll dive into KMT, but once i commit to KMT (since they're short enough to do in one go) i'll check everything again. Tathra (talk) 04:46, August 17, 2014 (UTC)

About Last Bible II demons:
I actually changed the names of some of the demons on the list because i checked its original names, the ones written in katakana, and they were mispelled. For example "Orobus" was originally written as "オロバス" which is "Orobasu", as well as "Vapor" whose name is "ヴェパル" or "Veparu". In fact i was about to change "Tagon" and link it to Dagon`s page, but in that case both of their names were different, with Tagon being actually タゴン (Tagon) and not ダゴン (Dagon). Im pretty sure though they are the same demon and "Tagon" was a mistake made by the creators of the game, but i decided not to change it just in case.

Im guessing some of the mispelling of the names comes from the translator of the patch not being a Megaten fan. Since Orobasu is pretty obvious that is Orobas and i think anyone who have played at least one or two megaten games would not commit the mistake of writing it as Orobus. Nevertheless i understand your point, i just wanted to explain you why i changed the names in the list.

Yafusa (talk) 07:01, September 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * you don't need to explain anything; its noted at the top that all the names are using what's in the patch, so especially with some of the difficulty in figuring some of them out due to little effort from the translator, the limitations of the gbc, and possible errors (i admit, linking dragon/zombie dragon to seiryuu is a complete guess based on zombie seiryuu being in demikids), its more helpful when people playing it with the patch can actually find out whats what. Tathra (talk) 07:45, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Templates and Category:Demons
Please don't add Category:Demons to stat templates. Specific game demon categories already branch off from the Demons category and it messes up the branching. Great Mara (talk) 03:11, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * i added it to the templates per this cleanup list. since the page was updated a few days ago, i'm assuming its something Bluerfn wants done. Tathra (talk) 03:18, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * That really makes no sense. The categories are supposed to branch out, not get all clumped together. I'll ask them about it. Great Mara (talk) 03:21, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * i agree. having a category for all demons to be able to get a full listing of all of them and search alphabetically would be nice, but it shouldnt be a root category. at least categories added through the stat templates are much more fluid and get updated automatically when anybody edits the page (when did that change? it used to update the categories automatically) rather than having to do each individual page, so it'll be easy to fix or change. Tathra (talk) 03:28, October 2, 2014 (UTC)

There's already a category for Neutral Demons in Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Neutral_Demons_in_Shin_Megami_Tensei:_IMAGINE


 * they should be "Category:(alignment) Demons in Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE" not "Category:(alignment) Demons in Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE", but i dont really feel like doing all 300+ pages right now. and please do not add hard categories when they're added by templates because it makes changing/updating/deleting categories that much harder and they'll just need to be deleted anyway. Tathra (talk) 06:25, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Tabber and Tabview
Hey, I've noticed that you've changed quite some P1 lists to use Tabview. But the thing is... Tabview doesn't work in Monobook, only in Wikia. Should we change it to Tabber (which works on both) or are we supposed to assume that everyone uses Wikia instead of Monobook? G.A.S.A (talk) 01:12, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * tabview doesn't work in monobook? ugh, crap. i hate using tabber because its incredibly slow to load, but if tabview doesn't always work, that doesn't leave much choice, does it? since they both use javascript, i cant imagine why one would work but the other wouldn't (if you have JS disabled using NoScript or something similar, neither should work), so that sounds like a pretty major flaw that the people in charge of wikia need to work on. let me finish what i'm doing now and then i'll do some research and try to figure out whats going on. Tathra (talk) 01:22, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is what happens when using tabview in Monobook. The new template is loaded right under the ones already there instead of changing places. Tabber works perfectly fine for me, so it's probably a flaw that the Wikia staff need to work on. G.A.S.A (talk) 01:34, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * sheesh, its been broken since 2011 at least. it looks like something they don't plan on ever fixing, so i guess we'll have to change all instances of tabview over to use tabber instead. thanks for bringing this to my attention. Tathra (talk) 01:58, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * They've stopped support for Monobook ever since they roll out the Wikia skin. I dunno if there's a way to get tabview to work from the monobook.js page but if there is, we'll gladly implement them.  BLUER   一番   02:20, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

Weak Template
I don't know how you can say it works fine when I can literally scroll past and barely see the words there. Not to mention the drop shadow effect doesn't work at all against black backgrounds. As it is the template puts more strain on my eyes than the white does. Not to mention dark text on dark backgrounds is a generally poor design choice. Great Mara (talk) 05:14, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * your screen must display differently from mine because it looks better on black backgrounds to me than it does on the yellow-ish-orange used for the SMT4 template (the shadow effect actually makes it harder to make out). the only time its a little difficult to see is when contrasted against the bright yellow of P4, but everywhere else it looks fine. Tathra (talk) 05:20, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * My brightness is all the way up and the best template I make actually make the words out against is the PQ template. Try to look against the P3 and P4 cells and I can hardly see the word. Great Mara (talk) 05:22, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * brightness wouldn't make a difference, it'd have to be some kind of difference in color or tint settings. is anybody else having trouble seeing it? Tathra (talk) 05:28, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not that I know of. Great Mara (talk) 05:33, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * see if you can find your Contrast settings, it is a bit difficult to make out at low contrast, but at middle contrast (usually the default setting) it stands out just fine. its not that dark of a red, so it shouldn't really blend in with black, but it might not hurt to bump up the template's color brightness a tiny bit to make it stand out more. the shadow should keep it visible against the orange SMT4 color even if it is brightened a tiny bit. maybe tone down your brightness a little bit too. if its at max you might not really see blacks at all, just bright grey. Tathra (talk) 05:45, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * The only things I've been able to find is the brightness settings. Found something for gamma and contrast but it was acting like I needed a desktop monitor to do it. Great Mara (talk) 17:54, December 17, 2014 (UTC)

Lucia
I just realized I edited this page almost immediately after you and that it was only by chance (I meant no offense). Feel free to revert my edits if you want. Or nevermind, looks like it wasn't the section you edited anyway.--N00bKing (talk) 10:11, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * yeah, your edit had nothing to do with mine, i was just adding her last Persona Q skill. i stick more to the data-entry and page-standardization stuff than messing around with profiles and such anyway. Tathra (talk) 10:14, December 17, 2014 (UTC)