User talk:Otherarrow

Thank you for the minor corrections ^^  BLUER   一番   13:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Tracey Rooney did not do the voice for Chie Satonaka. Danielle Judowitz did. I am a 38 year old man, and my son Chandler was cast in HS musical roadshow with Danielle. Please do not change this back. I have first-hand knowledge of this. My personal email is vanoi71@hotmail.com if you have any further questions. Cheers, Christian Miner

Have I met you before?
I saw you in the Fire Emblem Wiki! 124.104.176.134 12:27, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

So have I 124.104.186.117 01:51, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. I am an admin there.--Otherarrow 12:44, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Megami Tensei.
Why did you delete so much of the material I added to the Megami Tensei page?
 * Because it was copied from Wikipedia. I went and checked.--Otherarrow 21:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Of course I used copied portions from wikipedia. It has more details than this wiki. If you did not like it you could have just edited the information so it looked different.


 * Or you could have re-worked it before you even put it in the article. And linked it properly for this wiki so that it wasn't a dead giveaway. Great Mara 22:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

My bad
Sorry, other wikis asked me to do that, for some reason. Putting in the signature for some reason, so they can talk with those who submitted information.

And.. well... yeah I kinda do think it's important. He's a great character. I think it was brilliant of the game developers to make it so open ended, Kanji being a character that confirms who he is and accepting it on such a politicial issue these days is a big thing. The game left this character to be determined by the player, I honestly think he's straight, but that's just my point of perspective. And just cause a guy has a feminine heart doesn't mean he's gay, but possibly just sensative. So this not only appeals to the subconcious of guys like me who had wondered before - "just cause I'm touchy feely, that doesn't make me gay right?", but also appeals to those who ARE gay, and can yet still relate to Kanji. ((I sure as hell don't wear black leather jackets or stuff like that though.)) Woman made him terribly nervous, and it kept eating at his mind and making him wonder why even his soft side was rejected by woman. So while pointing out his orientation might not be important, it's nice to at least confirm for the audiences that are gay, that Kanji might possibly be bi.

((Note: trust me I'd use spell check if that option were available, and right clicking doesn't allow dictionary alternatives for words I might of spelled wrong. My bad. And is there any way to do a private message? I'm pretty sure I said something that sounds stupid or contradicting here but I'm never aware of it.))

Picture
Sorry for the blurry picture but it was the best i could work with my scaner was not working to wellMinato-Arisato 17:01, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's no problem. Keep up the good work.--Otherarrow 17:09, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Maya Strange Journey
Terribly sorry, but I hafta admit I got that image more or less by a fluke and I haven't even been able to find the original page where I found it. I think it must have been a scan of Schwartzwelt Reminiscences, the unofficial Strange Journey artbook, which I have also tried to find unsuccessfully. I will keep searching and the moment I find anything I will post it and let you know.

Deimos 16:22, May 1, 2011 (UTC)PiousAugustus

Hello there. Just wanted to let you know I did, indeed, found some high-res scans of Strange Journey bosses, Maya included. Just gimme a few moments and I'll replace the old images - they are much better than the old ones.

Deimos 19:41, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Dude, did you remove my trivia I added to the Innocent Sin page? I saw that it had been recently updated, but when I went to check it out, I noticed my contribution wasn't there anymore... It said you were the last to update it, so I was just wondering if you removed it...

If you did... why?

Icantfeelmyarms 20:11, September 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * The masks are Phoenix Featherman R masks, which is already referenced repeatedly in Persona 3. Besides, a Persona 3 screenshot doesn't need to be with Persona 2 screenshots.--Otherarrow 20:46, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

{C}Dude, it's referencing Persona 2... They're lined up in the exact order of the leader to the newest recruit... Notice how they're shaped exactly like they are in Persona 2, as well. I put the Persona 3 screen in there because it's the Persona 2 reference...
 * They are in that order and in that shape because those are the masks of the 5 Featherman Rangers, who are presumably in that order. Yes, Phoenix Ranger Featherman R is a blatant Persona 2 call back. If this mask thing was the only Featherman reference In P3, then I would let it stay but it's not. Featherman "episodes" show up on the TV on certain days. Ken has a Featherman action figure. Featherman gets referenced some more in Persona 4. It has grown more than "just a shout out to P2", at least IMO.--Otherarrow 23:50, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

That's completely understandable. I just think that those masks, though, how they're lined up is so... IDK... Like, it just seems to reference P2 too me... I know Featherman R shows up A LOT in P3, but the fact these masks are in the exact order as they had shown up in P2 and the fact they're at the shrine much like in P2 makes it seem like they're trying to reference Persona 2...

I don't want to cause any trouble, though... <.<; I'll stop putting it back up there, but I still think it's quite a shout-out to Persona 2... I never would have recognized them without playing Persona 2. When I first played P3, I totally didn't recognize them...

Icantfeelmyarms 23:58, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Dude, on the Innocent Sin page it says IS MIGHT not have come out in the West due to a homosexial relationship between Jun and Tatsuya... I played through IS and don't remember any homosexual relationship... {C}What do you say about this? I mean, do you remember anything like that? :T

Icantfeelmyarms 03:39, September 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, after the fight with Shadow Lisa, you can chose which of your party members Tatsuya "likes". If you chose Jun, Tatsuya and Jun gain a specific negotiation tactic. (If you chose Eikichi, nothing happens outside of a funny scene). And outside of that, yeah, Jun likes Tatsuya.--Otherarrow 12:03, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Uh...
"I'm Bluer here to welcome you(...)'? Bluer...? D: MinatoHikari 16:55, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bluer is the admin here. Why do you bring this up?--Otherarrow 17:01, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yuka Ayase in Persona 3
Why did you remove Yuka's information in Persona 3? And if its not her then who is it? --Cococrash11 15:38, November 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * One, Yuka isn't a natural blonde, and I doubt she will continue to bleach it after she became a housewife (see her P1 ending), not to mention the person had "bright blonde hair" and not the dirty blonde Yuka had, and 2. Yuka would be in her 30s, while the girl was described as in her 20s. The reference was to Lisa Silverman.--Otherarrow 15:46, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

About our discussion

 * Posted this on here since I didn't see a response in awhile and figured you hadn't seen it:
 * Yeah, I'm sorry I'm probably sounding snobbish, I know it's in different worlds but even with that it works fine. Heck, we have Masakados in SMT3 admitting that he's not from Nocturne's world despite appearing there. Yes, it's speculatory but so was Aleph being Hijiri and that's practically considered canon by almost all fans who know of it.
 * You should also note the extreme amount of SMT2 references in other games. Digital Devil Saga 2 had references to SMT2 with the 4 angels and Satan. In that game, the angels DID reference the Great Will.
 * SMT Nocturne had references to SMT2 with Hijiri's explanation. It's not at all a stretch to say that Demiurge is a reference to YHVH's aftermath from SMT2.
 * Look at it this way, we've been told the aftermath of what happened to Satan, to the 4 angels, to Aleph, and Demiurge is a clear reference to YHVH. All we need now is a reference to Hiroko from SMT2 and we'll have all the major players of that game accounted for.
 * Oh, btw, thanks for clearing up that mishap on the Dante page lol.
 * I'd like to also discuss a different topic... where did the theory of the 'Lady in Black' being Paimon come about? This might seem just as speculatory but I just read some info on the adventures of Cu Chuliann and in it there's a 'Triple Goddess' named Morrigan who turns into a young woman to give him her love and later turns into an old hag to insult him (it's because Cu Chuliann denied her love). Morrigan can also turn into a raven called Badb. Weirdly enough, in the TDE you see Lucifer and the Lady in Black disappear into the darkness with two black birds (Badb Catha?) fly towards New Kagutsuchi.

Now, I'm not endorsing the idea fully but I thought it was relevant enough and interesting to point out.The Truthful Knight 23:42, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I just had nothing to say.--Otherarrow 22:59, February 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh... lol. Well, if it's alright with you and whomever else if I could add the Morrigan idea on the Lady in Black page right below Paimon? It's fine if I can't. It's just... there honestly seems to be more evidence that she's Morrigan given what she can do and says. The only thing Paimon has linked to Lucifer is loyalty and the young lady's appearance. My idea is just a fan theory though but I find it odd that the Lady in Black seems to follow so closely to the story of Cu Chuliann's Morrigan. The Truthful Knight 23:42, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no problems with it.--Otherarrow 23:44, February 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Er, not to open the can of worms, so-to-speak but...Here's an interview with Kazuma Kaneko where he refers to the 'Megami Tensei' series and 'Shin Megami Tensei' series interchangeably. Doesn't that prove it's the same series to a degree?

http://www.1up.com/features/shin-megami-tensei-nocturne

Ctrl + F: "GMR" to get to the interview section. It's pretty lengthy.

I do not mean to seem like a jerk! Not my intention. Sincerely sorry if I come off as offending. The Truthful Knight 00:24, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Lebrys
Don't be sorry, man. This page (and other wikis) is to put the proper information, and because of that, we need to give opinions to reach a conclusion. I understand the whole Lebrys appearence, but still, she is making her debut on Persona 4: Arena, she may have appeared in A Certain Day of Summer, but only mentioned... that doesn't make her a P3 character, besides, CD Dramas don't tend to be canon. As for your Nanako example... she made her debut in Persona 4, so she would still have her P4 template. -- Crok425 02:23, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Protagonist (Persona 4)
He is a Silent Protagonist so why shouldn't he be called Protagonist (Persona 4)? I mean other Silent Protagonist had name but some of them didn't change into the name of the articles. --Cococrash11 04:27, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Tamaki Uchida. She got a name in a later title, so she is known as Tamaki. Arena is canon to the Persona series. He is Yu Narukami in Arena, so that is his name. The other protagonists who got names got them in noncanon adaptations or other sources of questionable canon.--Otherarrow 04:30, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

How about this what if in Persona 5, Protagonist (Persona 4) was mention just like with Protagonist (Persona 3). But instead of it calling him Yu Narukami it just mention him with no name. How would you know it will still be called Narukami maybe its only for Arena that he has to have a name. --Cococrash11 21:17, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Arena is canon to the series. The creators have already said this. The only way a hypothetical mention in Persona 5 would invalidate that is if they specifically call him another name, or say something that contradicts Arena.--Otherarrow 21:29, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

So if Persona 5 says something different about (Protagonist Persona 4) we can change it? That sound great and fair. --Cococrash11 21:43, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * We already know that his canon name is Yu Narukami, why do you want to change it so badly? If they mention him in Persona 5, it will surely be like there was a boy or he was... that will not change that his name will still be Yu Narukami, not mentioning his name doesn't mean that he wasn't called Yu Narukami. It's the same case with Tatsuya Suou, even though his name was on Innocent Sin, the player can still change it, and in voiced clips, they call him you in the boss battles, almost leaving his name ambiguous, but not until all the characters called him Tatsuya in Eternal Punishment, then why not change his article Protagonist (Persona 2: Innocent Sin). The same goes with Tamaki, she was named in Persona 1, which technically is a sequel to If... then again, why not change the article to Protagonist (Shin Megami Tensei: If...) which is the exact same case with Yu. -- Crok425 22:21, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Um, guys? I've seen some official material that still call him "Hero", so I'm wondering if the name is only for the arcade version to attract fans who have only seen the anime. How about we change it back to 'Protagonist (Persona 4)' and wait until both the console version of Arena and the Golden come out? If P2 is any indication, there's a possibility of them having the anime name by default.


 * EDIT: The Golden's site still has him as "Hero", making this change even more pointless. :/ CCMars 22:46, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Arena is still canon to the series. How many times must I say that? He is called Narukami in Arena, which is canon to the rest of the series. It doesn't matter if he is named "Yu Narukami" just to match up with the anime. The official materials you are referring to presumably predate Arena. (After all, Persona 4 has been out for a while, while Arena and the anime are both new.) Also, I doubt The Golden will give him an official name at all. Persona 4 didn't, and The Golden is just a port with extras of that. If I recall, If... got ports and rereleases after Persona, but it didn't have "Tamaki Uchida" as a default name for the protagonist.--Otherarrow 23:05, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Um, actually, the ones I saw came out after. All the material I'm talking about is related to Arena. Some material use the name, others do not. And considering Tamaki is only a minor character in Persona as opposed to Narukami/Souji/whatever being the main in nearly every P4 related material, I'm not sure that's the best comparison... CCMars 23:11, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I just checked the main P4U page. They have him listed as "Hero", but with "Yu Narukami" under parenthesis. The Arc version of the site (which focuses on the arcade version) only list him as 'Yu Narukami', making things even more confusing. CCMars 23:16, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT: Well, if you want to get technical, from the looks of things, Yu isn't the main character of Arena. Labrys is. I'll be honest, the only Arena related media I've seen that used "Protagonist" was the official site, which had "(Yu Narukami)" right next to it. All the actual gameplay I've seen just calls him Yu Narukami. I just assumed that they called him Protagonist in case people forgot that he was P4's protagonist. The site for the Arcade just calls him Yu Narukami, as you said. I'll be honest, I doubt they will rename him Protagonist again just for the home version.--Otherarrow 23:20, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

They are not going to change it back to protagonist, since it looks that he isn't the protagonist as you said. The same happened to Tatsuya, not being the MC of EP, the characters started to call him Tatsuya and he started speaking, so the article's name should remain as Yu Narukami.

EDIT: They are not going to change it because like I said before, the Atlus employe I talked about, said thath they are going to localize his name as Yu Narukami. -- Crok425 23:27, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

So basically, you're only changing it out of your own speculation (and where are you getting the idea that Labrys is the main character of Arena, anyway). Still, it's only the anime and Arena (which for some reason emphesizes the fact you can change the name in the console version) that uses that name. The problem with the Tatsuya argument is that the name has been used for every single P2 material from the very beginning. He-of-A-Thousand-Names does not have that excuse. That's why I'm weary about changing the name when not all of the material uses that name. CCMars 23:43, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I changed it because someone got proof that they will be calling him "Yu Narukami" in Arena. Arena is canon to the series. Nothing you will say changes that. It's that simple. Anyway, about Labrys being the Main Character, well, all of Arena's plot that we know is about her. The P3 characters came to Inaba searching for her, the main setting of the game is the "dungeon" formed around her when she got thrown into the TV world, the main antagonist is her Shadow, and every Arcade ending has her gaining her Persona. Also, where are you getting the idea you can change his name in the console version? Because one of the two official sites still calls him "Protagonist"? That doesn't tell us anything!--Otherarrow 23:49, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Found it! One of the Dengeki magazines had a mini-gude that again emphesised "Hero" and added "Yu Narukami" as an afterthought, despite past screenshots using "Yu Narukami" only. Other non-Arena articles also use "Hero". So, I don't think "Yu Narukami" is the The One Name That Rules Them All here. ^^; Besides, that's the thing: I don't know, and neither do you. For all we know, the two versions of Arena could be entirely different. So let's change it back for now, and then we'll debate on it once everything (Arena and Golden) is released. CCMars 23:57, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * As I said before, the Atlus employe said that they are going to localize his name as Yu Narukami, which is going to be his name in the console version, that is not going to change it, and as we said before, The Golden has nothing to do with it. As you said other non-Arena articles called him Hero, obviously, they are not going to call him Yu in a Persona 4: The Golden conference to make an example. -- Crok425 00:09, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT:::I'll be honest, I don't feel comfortable in moving it back to a "generic" name when a official, non-generic name for the character exists, and is in a canon game and all that hopdah. As for some magazine still calling him "Protagonist", well, he is primarily known as the protagonist of Persona 4, and as you said, it calls him Yu Narukami anyway. In the game, he is still called Yu Narukami. You saying that the home version of Arena will somehow "undo" that name and put him back to being a nameless protagonist is speculation, and one that is very likely to be false, as Atlus said they are calling him Yu Narukami in the localized version of the game. That was why the page was moved in the first place. I'd think it'd be easier for everyone to just leave it alone. I am not sure why you are trying to convince me though. I'm just one user. There are other users who oppose you trying to move it back. And, well, spin off or not, main character or not, Tamaki does set the standard for cases like this. If we move the P4 MC's page back to "Protagonist (Persona 4)", I'll move her page to "Protagonist (Shin Megami Tensei: if...)" just to be consistent.--Otherarrow 00:14, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

By the way...why is it what you say goes? I know I'm not the only one that opposed this. And why is what the actual main game and any other material (canon or non-canon) does less important than its spin-off? ...If also had more than one protagonist, and the one that did get a name became a minor character of a different spin-off with only hints at what happened in her game, so I'm not sure these two issues are the same. That's just me, though.
 * The question was whether they were going to use "Yuu" or "Yu" in localization. With the anime being hot at the moment and arcade games rarely (if ever) having name options, the use was pretty much inevitable. So, the console version may have Yu Narukami as a suggested name, a la every other game with a name-change option. Otherwise, why would they have "Yu Narukami" as an afterthought? Even so, this would be fine exept for one problem: there's more than one version of his name out there, so it's not exactly set in stone like Tatsuya is, and that's my problem with this article's title change. I hope that makes more sense.
 * Besides, you just kind of changed the article's name without any real debate. You just saw the sentence of what they're going to use at the Atlus site and went from your own interpretation of it. I'm not sure why it's so hard to wait until everything is released before changing anything anyway. CCMars 00:28, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, it kinda is set in stone, even HERE says that Persona 4: Arena is canon for good, Kazuhisa Wada, the director, said that. And I agree, there is a second name for him, and that's Souji Seta, but Atlus said that the manga is not canon, it's a manga adaptation of P4, but P4 Arena isn't a fighting game adaptation of P4. If... having two protagonist is not a different issue, since Persona 1 said that that Tamaki, the female one, was the canon protagonist of If... and that her canon name is Tamaki Uchida. I'm not trying to convince Otherarrow, I just want to prove the fact that his name is Yu Narukami now. It wasn't inevitable to put him Yu Narukami, if it was inevitable, then they would have named him Souji Seta, since far back when the game was announced, all the fans prefered Souji Seta as his name. Again, I state, I just want to prove the fact of his name. I didn't changed the article's name just because the sentence, the Atlus employe which is from ATLUS said that his name is localized as Yu Narukami, if you remember well, I didn't changed his name when Arena wasn't announced for NA, so it is a real debate. -- Crok425 00:36, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

-
 * EDIT CONFLICT:I wasn't the one who moved it! Check the history before you throw around your baseless accusations CCMars! I moved it back after someone else moved it without giving any reason for their move! Also, when Arena's official site first came out, I asked if we should move it, and everyone said that we should wait until we get it in English. And, look, we got it in English! (Sure, just clarification of how the name would be romanized, but it does confirm that in the English localization, they are using the name) I am not saying it should be "Yu Narukami" because I said it should. I never said that. I said that I support it being at Yu Narukami because that is the name given to him in Arena, which is canon to the series. Are you reading my posts at all? Also, we have seen nothing from the home version, so what you are saying is pretty much just you speculating based on advertisement. The same way you are not the only one who opposes the move, I am not the only one who supports it. Stop treating me like I'm the only one oppossing you. Honestly? You are starting to bother me. I've tried to just stop this politely, but you keep responding, and now you are getting rude about it.--Otherarrow 00:38, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

He's right, I'm the one who moved the article, and it's also true that everyone said to wait, even I said that. Sure, CCMars is speculating over if they are going to undo his name and made him be a nameless character, but of course I'm kind of speculating too because they just recently announce Arena, but it's a fact that his name is Yu Narukami now. -- Crok425 00:45, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Read again what I said. I'm not debating any canon. I don't care what's canon or what's not. The problem is Yu Narukami is not always the name used, plus he uses a different name in other official - canon or no - material. If's female protagonist never had another name other than Tamaki outside of that game (the first NA version of Persona does not count). P4's protagonist has. That the main website FOR ARENA, not to mention Dengenki's little booklet - ALSO FOR ARENA - puts an emphesis on "Hero" and adds "Yu Narukami" as an afterthought is strange to me. Golden (a port of the main game) and anything related to P4 outside the anime rarely - if ever - uses it.
 * tl;dr - This name is not completely set like Tamaki or Tatsuya. 
 * Besides, keep in mind the orignal game was NOT everyone's introduction to Persona 4, so it's no surpise they used Yu Narukami for the arcade version of Arena.
 * And once again, why is it your way or the highway here?


 * I apologize if I seem rude to you, Otherarrow, as that was not my intention. I was addressing both of you, not just you, so I should have written that better. Again, I apologize. However, you're not exactly listening to me either. I'm just not sure why we have to change anything based on sheer speculation. CCMars 00:59, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Not listening is not an excuse to be rude, besides, Otherarrow is kind of out in this discussion since it seems that he doesn't wants to be part of it, and believe me, I don't wanna be part of it either, because you are the one who is not listening. I'm not being rude with you CCMars, so stop using terms like everything as you say goes because it's not true, no one does that here. If I had done that, Great Mara, most of all, would have reverted it without a second thought, but he agreed on changing it, and do you think that one Atlus employe would make the decision on his own and not talk about with the head of the company? No one in a company is that arrogant, so it goes at how it is now. As I stated before, Souji Seta is non a canon name, Atlus said, but Yu Narukami is, again, Atlus said it. -- Crok425 01:06, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT:::Honestly? Because it's not speculation. It's not like we are guessing that his name is Yu Narukami in Arena. It pretty clearly shows that as his name in the game. That's the whole reason we even considered moving the page. Also, I will just say that I think you are putting too much weight into this Degenki thing, but that is just my opinion. And, well, I'll be blunt, I've been trying to hint this, but now I'm just going to say it outright: Stop talking about this on my talk page.. Seriously, this isn't getting anywhere, and you are getting rude and I am getting mad.--Otherarrow 01:11, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * A shesh... sorry about that, man. We'll follow the discussion in th Protagonist's talk page. -- Crok425 01:16, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry Crok, that was directed more at CCMars than you. But yes, this isn't the place for all of the discussion on this. The talk page is! I've said my bit.--Otherarrow 01:18, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Otherarrow, I'll be glad to do so, and I apologize for bothering you. I am only answering you two. CCMars 01:20, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Ogun
Have you played Devil Survivor 2 or remember how his name is written in Strange Journey? Because I can't remember one instance where his name is written as Ogoun. Message 01:45, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I only recall him from Persona, where he is Ogun. Is Ogoun a fan translation thing or something? I'd move it.--Otherarrow 02:26, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it was another of one of Pinkie's little wonderful ideas but I wasn't sure so I wanted to double check. I'll go see if I can find a FAQ or something. UserGreatMara.pngge 02:48, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ultimate Navbox
I say keep it yellow. Also don't forget to add this link: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Changes_in_Persona_4:_Arena Zahlzeit 00:50, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

There isn't that good of a juxtaposition with the white and yellow. Maybe make the text red to match the title logo? Or will that be confusing because it'll look like a broken link? Well if it's that or if that looks ugly I guess black will do.

Photos
Could you delete ? I added it today but messed up (not a default picture) and added the correct one. Similarly, can you delete the low quality P4 anime pictures? Zahlzeit 14:33, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Great Mara already got to it. As for the anime pictures, I'd love to delete all of them, but I think the consensus was to keep them or something? Something like that.--Otherarrow 16:47, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Oh you're right. He/she did. Great Mara is a fast bugger.

Anyway, I figured as much. I'm talking about the really low quality ones or just the more unprofessional ones though. A good example is this one of Chie. Looks like one of you guys got to it as I was typing. Nevermind. I'm going to try to clean up the gallery of the now-dead-links then. Zahlzeit 16:51, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I found an excuse to delete them. Most of them have really bad and uninformative filenames. Like, I think there was one of Narukami titled just "que". Que? Sadly, I had to delete what appeared to be info on a Elizabeth statue thing because the filename was all numbers, but rules are rules I guess.--Otherarrow 16:53, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

That's a really sneaky loop hole. In all seriousness, ? Augh. Zahlzeit 16:56, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I deleted all of that set either because they were misnamed (Most of them didn't even have Kanji in them) or because they were just low quality (and I think we have higher quality screenshots of most of these early episodes somewhere anyway)--Otherarrow 16:57, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be more deleted if it's for the reason of clearing low quality pictures? Like some of the Rise ones even have a lot of JPG artifacts. Zahlzeit 17:01, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm slugging through these as they come up on the "New Images" page. I'm pretty much going through them in reverse chronological order.--Otherarrow 17:03, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay. Thanks. Zahlzeit 17:05, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Oh and delete any full-body images of Devil Survivor 2 characters that have a white background. I'll replace them all with their high res, transparent background ones soon. Zahlzeit 17:27, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Appearances
IMAGINE is not a part of the main series. Also we need some way of deciding what we really want the appearances sections to look like because there's way too much differing opinions on the matter. Great Mara, and a lot of other people I've talked to, really prefer the chronological order but you seem to like grouping by series. Personally I'm with ordering chronologically unless a game is a direct sequel or remake of the other (Persona 2 duology, P3+P3FES+P3P, etc.)


 * According to the IMAGINE page it takes place between SMT and SMT II, which is why I've started placing it according to the format on my Sandbox page. Basically what series came first will have its sequels listed under it and will be listed in that order. I've got the write up for that format on my Sandbox but maybe we really should try to get everyone together to see if we can agree on a concrete policy for sections in the Manual of Style.


 * Also, I might be a bit before responding. I'm currently on my lunch break at work and have about 10 minutes until I have to get back to it. UserGreatMara.pngge 18:21, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT::That's understandable, though I do find it kinda bizarre when, for instance, a demon appears in both Devil Survivor and Devil Survivor 2, but there are a few games between the two entries, or when there is a lengthy gap between the SMTII entry and the SMTIII one. But maybe it's just me. As for IMAGINE, I heard somewhere that it was in continuity with SMT and SMT2, but eh, I can see why it wouldn't "count". Of course, which ever order we decide on, I'll be happy to go with. Of course, what would be a direct sequel? For example, the 4 (6, whatever) Persona games are in the same world and are in continuity with each other, but aside from a few references or cameos, are pretty much self contained. Would they be grouped together or split up? Sorry for the trouble.
 * EDIT:I am fine with the order proposed in Great Mara's sandbox page.--Otherarrow 18:24, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

A lot of the appearances sections are screwed up which is why it's like that. Also the lengthy gap between SMTII and SMTIII is because some people go pure chronological order. You make a good point about the sequel stuff though. I say go pure chronological to make things easy.

What is even the basis of Great Mara's Sandbox page? I can't make heads or tails out of it. Zahlzeit 18:31, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh I just remembered you guys are admins now. I think this might be worth putting as a poll .Zahlzeit 18:47, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer a forum, so we can discuss it with the other users, get some ideas we may not have thought of out there, that sort of thing. It's up to you guys though.--Otherarrow 18:49, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * How about both? Zahlzeit 19:04, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * We need to settle this pretty soon. I'm finding way too many pages with way too many Appearance styles and it's one of the first steps to improving these pages. Zahlzeit 22:27, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you guys make the forum page, or the poll, or whatever? I don't think that just asking the admins to fix it will help if users who are not the admins are the ones doing it differently.--Otherarrow 23:31, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm just a normal user and you guys are the admins, who pretty much set the rules if I'm not mistaken. I asked so we could finally settle on something and actually work towards arranging them properly and consistently. I just asked the SMT community I'm with on their opinion and it was mostly in favor of a pure chronological order. Zahlzeit 23:38, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Deleting Pictures
Oh and next time you delete pictures, which is fine of course, please remember what the origin of the pictures are from and to clean them from the gallery they came from. Zahlzeit 02:26, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry about that. I'll be sure to remember to do that next time.--Otherarrow 02:27, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Request to Delete P4U Pictures
Could you delete and ? They're just screencaps of the site and just contain bio info which is already on the wiki anyway. Zahlzeit 02:00, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for the heads up.--Otherarrow 02:01, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Got another one. I don't think we REALLY need two pictures of the character select screen. The other one is fine since it shows off character portraits but this one is practically the same as the Naoto/Teddie one. Zahlzeit 02:04, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry. Just got another. This is that aforementioned character portraits screenshot but I just found out there was already a Kanji/Yukiko one that shows off the same thing but in better quality. Zahlzeit 02:09, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ariadne/Palladion
There is a Youtube video entitled "Persona 4: The Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena - Labrys Gameplay (part 2/2)" where the person playing is using Labrys in her Aigis alt color, with Ariadne as Palladion. In your edit summary you say Ariadne in this color looks nothing like it, but I respectfully disagree here and say that the Ariadne in that video is clearly colored after Palladion. Strain42 21:31, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * We have an image on the Wiki of Labrys and her persona in that palette. Try and tell me this looks like this.--Otherarrow 21:33, April 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I actually posted that picture lol but that picture doesn't specify that that Ariadne goes with that Labrys. All I ask is that you please check out this video I mentioned (seen here) and then tell me that this Ariadne isn't colored after Palladion. Strain42 21:37, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right. However, you uploaded a misleading and incorrect image. Why? Why did you do that? By your little screw up, you tricked the Wiki and all of it's followers into thinking that those palettes went together. Did you think it did? Or were you just uploading from somewhere else, without stopping to check your facts? Forgive me if this comes off as rude, but all this confusion is your fault. Don't do something stupid like that again, OK? I am actually kinda mad at you right now.--Otherarrow 21:43, April 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * It was not my intention to mislead or confuse anyone. Originally I uploaded that picture for one reason and one reason only. At the time, that was the only decent picture of Ariadne that anyone seemed to have, and I put it on the page since there was no other photo available on Ariadne's page. I never claimed that the two went together. I myself did not believe that they went together (In fact I thought I even posted it with a caption saying otherwise, but I could be mistaken) I simply uploaded it as a placeholder image until we had official artwork of Ariadne to take its place. I apologize for the confusion caused, but I do hope we can clear things up. Strain42 21:55, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. Thanks. Well, the image is gone, and the mix up corrected. Sorry for getting mad and calling you an idiot. I admit, I acted more emotionally than I should. Thank you for your correction, and I hope I didn't just spoil your opinion of me or anything like that.--Otherarrow 21:59, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Important P4U trivia please read

 * Yu is a reference to Ragna because they both use swords and slash upwards in one of their attacks.


 * Naoto is a reference to Baiken in GGXX because uhhh they both want to be guys at some point in the stories.


 * Aigis is a reference to Justice and Tager because there are clearly no robots in fighting games except for those guys

i am clearly competent and not pulling at strings
 * Heh. I admit, that made me smile.--Otherarrow 02:46, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

SMT2 Template Redesign
"I have no clue in what order I am putting the NPCs in though."

I'll ask people who know SMT2 about it later to figure out an order. Zahlzeit 21:52, April 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * You'd do that for me? Thanks. I admit, while I know the basic plot of SMT II, I don't know the details, so I don't know who comes in when and so on.--Otherarrow 02:46, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Picture Removal Request: Nicaea
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Nicaea_B_ver..jpg

Pretty unprofessional with that logo at the bottom. I replaced it already.

Animation/Anime Merge (backup)
Hey Otherarrow, in case Mara can't pick this up, those two pages are on the wiki and they're exactly the same, would it be possible for you to merge them? Also, could the page Episode 29 - Sphinx don't let anyone control your heart. be deleted or something? Because it doesn't refer to any page in particular at all, like someone just put it here for no reason at all.

Also, I'll be making a page for the DDS OVA, you know, the one with Loki rape? That needs to be in the animation section. --BOXN 01:45, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well the novel had Loki rape too, technically. Don't worry, I'll take care of it.--Otherarrow 01:51, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

SMT2 Template
B-but I did! o_õ

Also, you weren't justifying your changes too, you know? >_>

Anyway, sorry then. So, here's the deal:

1) I think the way you are dividing the characters as "playable" and "unplayable" isn't really... fair. I mean, under the right circumstances, even Satan and Lucifer could become playable characters, so why not put them together with Hiroko and Beth? It's simple: because it's going to be weird as hell, that's why.

So I preferred the "main character/minor character" method because, frankly, that's the way it always were, even before I started updating the 'Shin Megami Tensei II'' pages. I don't really like changing'' things. I just add stuff.

2) If you are going to put all the non-playable characters from the game in the template, it's just going to become a huge mess. I mean, Haneda? Seriously? Putting him in the same category as YHVH for example... that's just wrong. That's why I didn't created any new pages for every minor character, and just decided to organize them all together in one place (the Shin Megami Tensei II page, characters section).

I'm not saying that you need to delete the pages of those characters that you (it was you, right?) created. I'm just saying that, you know, it's too irrelevant information. I suggest we exclude any character, save YHVH, that doesn't have an updated artwork for the Shin Megami Tensei II remake-- that's the only excuse I could find to myself to permit Red Bear to be in that template.

3) Some of the tags that you put on the "Terms" section don't even exist, and I doubt there is information enough about them for us make a stand-alone page for all of them. “The Colosseum" I was going to eventually describe in the Valhalla section of the Tokyo Millenium's page anyway; and the "Virtual Battler" could be inserted somewhere there, I think.

Also, the "Old Tokyo" should be a tag for Shin Megami Tensei I, not II. Unless you are referring to the "Underworld", which I would propose we do one of those two things:

a) Transform the name of the page from "Old Tokyo" to "Underworld", and extract the Underworld section from the Tokyo Millenium page, in order to do a new page.

or

b) Exclude "Old Tokyo" from the template.

Also, I don't really think the Cult of Gaea needs any mention here. They are obviously not as important to the plot as they were in the first game. Also, wouldn't Kuzuryu too be considered an unplayable character? His page can refer to him as a "super-weapon", but he IS technically a demon. Anyway, if we are going to put stuff as this in the template, then we might as well do it for Eden, the Pillars, the Dolls, you know where I'm getting at, right?

...

Nevertheless, I didn't knew you were trying to make the template in the best accordance to the ones from other games. I'm sorry. >:\

Still, as I said... it was ALWAYS like that, so why are you changing it just now that I started updating things anyway? It feels like you're just being mean about it. D:

Kuronekoekoeko 01:27, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * The SMTII template before was kinda...bad. No real organization to it at all, all of the characters just thrown in without any real rhyme or reason to them. If you notice, I did cave and put Lucifer, Satan, and Cerberus in with the human playables. As for putting minor NPCs like in with, say, YHVH, that is just how it falls. The other templates don't try to filter out NPCs according to importance. As for Old Tokyo, I'll change it to the Underground, and split that from Tokyo Millennium. It and Millennium aren't considered by the game to be the same place anyway, so I always thought lumping them together was odd.--Otherarrow 01:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kuronekooekoeko, the template is made to fit the other templates. Also sure, they may be playable but they aren't playable and also have a major role on top of that. You could even say they're not the same exact demon like how there's more than one Jack Frost and such. There are a lot of holes in your argument besides that too.


 * Otherarrow. Couldn't get a proper order for the SMT2 list but someone said it's fine as is--the order I would assume. Just seperate the characters but keep them the same order. Also the characters that don't have pages don't have them for a reason. For example for one of the NPCs one person just said that she doesn't even have art or isn't significant at all. Zahlzeit 01:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are talking about Anoon, I know she has art. I've seen it before. I think one of the remakes added it. Although the site where I found it seems to have gone down. If you are talking about Puck and mistaken him for a girl, well, OK fine. Puck was a punk anyway. As for the "some characters don't have pages because they don't need them." thing, Meraka is a fairly important NPC, and his relatively unimportant scientist buddy got an article over him. It seems to be more that people just haven't gotten around to making these articles.--Otherarrow 01:40, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I reread a log of what he said. It was Haneda actually but since a page is already written for him, whatever. Secondly there was Oberon and Amaterasu since he said they didn't have any roles except for praising you for freeing them. Zahlzeit 01:47, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, removing Oberon and Amaterasu. Also, I confused Haneda for the other scientist guy (though I think someone did make an article for him.) Thanks for helping me out here.--Otherarrow 01:54, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but as you insisted, I'm putting everything and anything there.

And yes, they don't directly enter the party, but if that was a requirement, then I would have put every demon available in the game. The difference is that the Amatsukami clearly state that they will aid Aleph in battle if he wishes, which means that the demons you summon at the Jakyou Manor ARE the ones you just rescued from the sealed cave-- in other words, they are characters.

The same goes for Ishtar and Ashtar, which I just added.

... btw, that's the reason I just removed Oberon from the template.

The one who is the ruler of Shinjuku isn't necessary the same one you can fuse or find at dungeons, for example.
 * I'll be honest, I am getting the impression you are just trying to spite me at this point. Don't get personal. If they have to be fused, then they aren't playables. You don't have to fuse Lucifer, Satan, Cerberus, etc. That is the only reason I am letting them in. Otherwise, yes, as you said, we'd be letting in any demon in the game. Also, I think you still have to fuse Ishtar even after you split Astaroth. Also note that I never insisted on putting everything and anything. Now you are just putting words in my mouth.--Otherarrow 15:27, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

HUH?

Dude, I really ain't getting what judgement you are using to edit the tags here, seriously.

I just said: they are characters of the story, not just simple random encounters, so why not put them there? I'm trying to do things your way here, or I would just have edited it back the way it always where.

If they don't deserve to be considered playable character just because they have to be fused, that doesn't make any sense. If there can't be requirements for them to get into your party for they to be considered characters, than Satan and Lucifer also wouldn't count (since they are only playable if you are going for the law or chaos ending, respectively). I'm putting the demons there not because they're playable, but because they're playable characters. Isn't that's what this is all about?

. ..

And well, I didn't said you said that, that's just the conclusion I'm getting at here: create pages for everyone and everything, and putting them all into the template.

As I said, I don't really agree with you, but if we are going to do things this way, then we might as well do it right. o3o

But well, if you're getting the feelings this is going to become a discussion or something, then I might as well give up.

Tell you what, I'm just going to keep working at the main pages that already exists. Okay then? Okay. q
 * I axed Amaterasu and her ilk because people were commenting that she was too minor, more of a "hi and bye, oh, and don't forget that you can fuse me now" than a real character. Now that you bring it up, I would like to argue on if there is a difference between "player" and "playable". I noticed that the SMT1 and Nocturne templates only have a small number of characters under "player", basicly, the core humans and the companions, with a few exceptions like Pascal and Dante/Raidou, who are treated more as "human" allies rather than demons (they can't be put in the comp, they can't be fused or summoned, they don't eat MAG, etc). I am pretty sure that there are a few other demons who join automatically in those games, so why aren't they in there too? My guess is because, while they are "playable", they aren't "player". Am I correct? It seems I've been doing it wrong this whole time. As for the "they aren't just random encounters, so they count as characters" thing, well, so do bosses, and we aren't adding every boss to the template. Think of them like "Unique" demons in later games. There are only one of them, and you can thus only have only one of them (in games where you can have multiples of a demon of course), but they aren't really part of the plot, outside of maybe the events where you unlock the right to fuse them. It would be like adding the Heroes to the Devil Survivor 2 template, IMO.--Otherarrow 18:09, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT:I am sorry if I came off as hostile. I've been working on cleaning the template up, and while I have no problem with you disagreeing with me on how it works (discussion is good), I feel that you are getting rather belligerent and rude about it. I also feel that there may be some misunderstanding as well. I am sorry.--Otherarrow 18:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Force and Wind Merging
Shouldn't we merge the Force and Wind Spell sections? They are practically the same thing just referred to by different names, right? Zahlzeit 21:02, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the first Persona, Force spells were a subtype of spells (consisting of Nuclear, Gravity, Electricity and Blast) that stood in opposition to the standard Element spells (Fire, Ice, Earth and Wind). So, yeah, Force has been used for something that isn't just renamed Wind. For the longest time, I thought that Wind being called Force was something the early games did, but apparently games as recent as Devil Survivor 2 uses it too?--Otherarrow 21:06, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * If Devil Survivor 2 follows Devil Survivor's system then yes. I'm playing around on Devil Survivor right now and wind spells are referred to as Force Spells. UserGreatMara.pngge 21:09, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, isn't that confusing? I thought that the Garu line has been categorized as "Wind" for some time now. Wonder why they went back to Force? Of course, I think some Force categories use the Zan line instead of the Garu line, and Zan was Blast in P1. So confusing!--Otherarrow 21:14, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yu Trivia
I don't know. It's not inaccurate and it is trivial knowledge. What are your thoughts? Zahlzeit 00:01, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems like it really could be just a coincidence. I mean, Electro Speed doesn't seem like it's a intentional reference to Quick Attack, but rather an electric, speedy attack. Because Narukami/Izanagi is electric themed. Quick Attack is speedy, but not electric. I guess I will have to see the attack to be sure. I don't really like when people try to force something as a reference without being sure.--Otherarrow 00:13, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. Lets leave it as you left it. Zahlzeit 00:27, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Source for Marie
Do you mean for the part about online capabilities or for Marie being the one to explain/distribute them? Because there is really is online stuff in Golden now apparently. Zahlzeit 17:47, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Marie being the one linked to it. I don't doubt that there will be online stuff. As for Marie, all we know about her is that she exists, has ties to Igor, and shows up in the Velvet Room at some point for unknown reasons.--Otherarrow 18:36, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion request of an old photo on the SJ Protagonist Page
. I just replaced it. Zahlzeit 20:57, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

SMT Template
Fellow editor asked what does MAG mean on the SMT template? And what exactly is NOA? We know that it's number of attacks but for pixie it says 1-7 although apparently it can never do more than one. Is this just incorrect information? Zahlzeit 14:29, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thino "Number of Attacks" actually stands for number of hits, like sometimes when you attack with some weapons, it hits multiple times in a single attack? Of course, it is possible that the pixie entry could just be wrong. As for MAG, it stands for Magnetite, and I think the MAG stat is how much MAG they consume with each step and I think how much is needed to summon them.--Otherarrow 14:34, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Number of Hits sounds pretty legit. Should I change the template? Zahlzeit 14:37, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Go ahead.--Otherarrow 14:47, April 18, 2012 (UTC)