User talk:Otherarrow

Thank you for the minor corrections ^^  BLUER   一番   13:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Have I met you before?
I saw you in the Fire Emblem Wiki! 124.104.176.134 12:27, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

So have I 124.104.186.117 01:51, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. I am an admin there.--Otherarrow 12:44, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Megami Tensei.
Why did you delete so much of the material I added to the Megami Tensei page?
 * Because it was copied from Wikipedia. I went and checked.--Otherarrow 21:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Of course I used copied portions from wikipedia. It has more details than this wiki. If you did not like it you could have just edited the information so it looked different.


 * Or you could have re-worked it before you even put it in the article. And linked it properly for this wiki so that it wasn't a dead giveaway. Great Mara 22:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

My bad
Sorry, other wikis asked me to do that, for some reason. Putting in the signature for some reason, so they can talk with those who submitted information.

And.. well... yeah I kinda do think it's important. He's a great character. I think it was brilliant of the game developers to make it so open ended, Kanji being a character that confirms who he is and accepting it on such a politicial issue these days is a big thing. The game left this character to be determined by the player, I honestly think he's straight, but that's just my point of perspective. And just cause a guy has a feminine heart doesn't mean he's gay, but possibly just sensative. So this not only appeals to the subconcious of guys like me who had wondered before - "just cause I'm touchy feely, that doesn't make me gay right?", but also appeals to those who ARE gay, and can yet still relate to Kanji. ((I sure as hell don't wear black leather jackets or stuff like that though.)) Woman made him terribly nervous, and it kept eating at his mind and making him wonder why even his soft side was rejected by woman. So while pointing out his orientation might not be important, it's nice to at least confirm for the audiences that are gay, that Kanji might possibly be bi.

((Note: trust me I'd use spell check if that option were available, and right clicking doesn't allow dictionary alternatives for words I might of spelled wrong. My bad. And is there any way to do a private message? I'm pretty sure I said something that sounds stupid or contradicting here but I'm never aware of it.))

Picture
Sorry for the blurry picture but it was the best i could work with my scaner was not working to wellMinato-Arisato 17:01, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's no problem. Keep up the good work.--Otherarrow 17:09, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Maya Strange Journey
Terribly sorry, but I hafta admit I got that image more or less by a fluke and I haven't even been able to find the original page where I found it. I think it must have been a scan of Schwartzwelt Reminiscences, the unofficial Strange Journey artbook, which I have also tried to find unsuccessfully. I will keep searching and the moment I find anything I will post it and let you know.

Deimos 16:22, May 1, 2011 (UTC)PiousAugustus

Hello there. Just wanted to let you know I did, indeed, found some high-res scans of Strange Journey bosses, Maya included. Just gimme a few moments and I'll replace the old images - they are much better than the old ones.

Deimos 19:41, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Dude, did you remove my trivia I added to the Innocent Sin page? I saw that it had been recently updated, but when I went to check it out, I noticed my contribution wasn't there anymore... It said you were the last to update it, so I was just wondering if you removed it...

If you did... why?

Icantfeelmyarms 20:11, September 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * The masks are Phoenix Featherman R masks, which is already referenced repeatedly in Persona 3. Besides, a Persona 3 screenshot doesn't need to be with Persona 2 screenshots.--Otherarrow 20:46, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

{C}Dude, it's referencing Persona 2... They're lined up in the exact order of the leader to the newest recruit... Notice how they're shaped exactly like they are in Persona 2, as well. I put the Persona 3 screen in there because it's the Persona 2 reference...
 * They are in that order and in that shape because those are the masks of the 5 Featherman Rangers, who are presumably in that order. Yes, Phoenix Ranger Featherman R is a blatant Persona 2 call back. If this mask thing was the only Featherman reference In P3, then I would let it stay but it's not. Featherman "episodes" show up on the TV on certain days. Ken has a Featherman action figure. Featherman gets referenced some more in Persona 4. It has grown more than "just a shout out to P2", at least IMO.--Otherarrow 23:50, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

That's completely understandable. I just think that those masks, though, how they're lined up is so... IDK... Like, it just seems to reference P2 too me... I know Featherman R shows up A LOT in P3, but the fact these masks are in the exact order as they had shown up in P2 and the fact they're at the shrine much like in P2 makes it seem like they're trying to reference Persona 2...

I don't want to cause any trouble, though... <.<; I'll stop putting it back up there, but I still think it's quite a shout-out to Persona 2... I never would have recognized them without playing Persona 2. When I first played P3, I totally didn't recognize them...

Icantfeelmyarms 23:58, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Dude, on the Innocent Sin page it says IS MIGHT not have come out in the West due to a homosexial relationship between Jun and Tatsuya... I played through IS and don't remember any homosexual relationship... {C}What do you say about this? I mean, do you remember anything like that? :T

Icantfeelmyarms 03:39, September 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, after the fight with Shadow Lisa, you can chose which of your party members Tatsuya "likes". If you chose Jun, Tatsuya and Jun gain a specific negotiation tactic. (If you chose Eikichi, nothing happens outside of a funny scene). And outside of that, yeah, Jun likes Tatsuya.--Otherarrow 12:03, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Uh...
"I'm Bluer here to welcome you(...)'? Bluer...? D: MinatoHikari 16:55, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bluer is the admin here. Why do you bring this up?--Otherarrow 17:01, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yuka Ayase in Persona 3
Why did you remove Yuka's information in Persona 3? And if its not her then who is it? --Cococrash11 15:38, November 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * One, Yuka isn't a natural blonde, and I doubt she will continue to bleach it after she became a housewife (see her P1 ending), not to mention the person had "bright blonde hair" and not the dirty blonde Yuka had, and 2. Yuka would be in her 30s, while the girl was described as in her 20s. The reference was to Lisa Silverman.--Otherarrow 15:46, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

About our discussion

 * Posted this on here since I didn't see a response in awhile and figured you hadn't seen it:
 * Yeah, I'm sorry I'm probably sounding snobbish, I know it's in different worlds but even with that it works fine. Heck, we have Masakados in SMT3 admitting that he's not from Nocturne's world despite appearing there. Yes, it's speculatory but so was Aleph being Hijiri and that's practically considered canon by almost all fans who know of it.
 * You should also note the extreme amount of SMT2 references in other games. Digital Devil Saga 2 had references to SMT2 with the 4 angels and Satan. In that game, the angels DID reference the Great Will.
 * SMT Nocturne had references to SMT2 with Hijiri's explanation. It's not at all a stretch to say that Demiurge is a reference to YHVH's aftermath from SMT2.
 * Look at it this way, we've been told the aftermath of what happened to Satan, to the 4 angels, to Aleph, and Demiurge is a clear reference to YHVH. All we need now is a reference to Hiroko from SMT2 and we'll have all the major players of that game accounted for.
 * Oh, btw, thanks for clearing up that mishap on the Dante page lol.
 * I'd like to also discuss a different topic... where did the theory of the 'Lady in Black' being Paimon come about? This might seem just as speculatory but I just read some info on the adventures of Cu Chuliann and in it there's a 'Triple Goddess' named Morrigan who turns into a young woman to give him her love and later turns into an old hag to insult him (it's because Cu Chuliann denied her love). Morrigan can also turn into a raven called Badb. Weirdly enough, in the TDE you see Lucifer and the Lady in Black disappear into the darkness with two black birds (Badb Catha?) fly towards New Kagutsuchi.

Now, I'm not endorsing the idea fully but I thought it was relevant enough and interesting to point out.The Truthful Knight 23:42, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I just had nothing to say.--Otherarrow 22:59, February 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh... lol. Well, if it's alright with you and whomever else if I could add the Morrigan idea on the Lady in Black page right below Paimon? It's fine if I can't. It's just... there honestly seems to be more evidence that she's Morrigan given what she can do and says. The only thing Paimon has linked to Lucifer is loyalty and the young lady's appearance. My idea is just a fan theory though but I find it odd that the Lady in Black seems to follow so closely to the story of Cu Chuliann's Morrigan. The Truthful Knight 23:42, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no problems with it.--Otherarrow 23:44, February 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Er, not to open the can of worms, so-to-speak but...Here's an interview with Kazuma Kaneko where he refers to the 'Megami Tensei' series and 'Shin Megami Tensei' series interchangeably. Doesn't that prove it's the same series to a degree?

http://www.1up.com/features/shin-megami-tensei-nocturne

Ctrl + F: "GMR" to get to the interview section. It's pretty lengthy.

I do not mean to seem like a jerk! Not my intention. Sincerely sorry if I come off as offending. The Truthful Knight 00:24, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Lebrys
Don't be sorry, man. This page (and other wikis) is to put the proper information, and because of that, we need to give opinions to reach a conclusion. I understand the whole Lebrys appearence, but still, she is making her debut on Persona 4: Arena, she may have appeared in A Certain Day of Summer, but only mentioned... that doesn't make her a P3 character, besides, CD Dramas don't tend to be canon. As for your Nanako example... she made her debut in Persona 4, so she would still have her P4 template. -- Crok425 02:23, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Protagonist (Persona 4)
He is a Silent Protagonist so why shouldn't he be called Protagonist (Persona 4)? I mean other Silent Protagonist had name but some of them didn't change into the name of the articles. --Cococrash11 04:27, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Tamaki Uchida. She got a name in a later title, so she is known as Tamaki. Arena is canon to the Persona series. He is Yu Narukami in Arena, so that is his name. The other protagonists who got names got them in noncanon adaptations or other sources of questionable canon.--Otherarrow 04:30, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

How about this what if in Persona 5, Protagonist (Persona 4) was mention just like with Protagonist (Persona 3). But instead of it calling him Yu Narukami it just mention him with no name. How would you know it will still be called Narukami maybe its only for Arena that he has to have a name. --Cococrash11 21:17, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Arena is canon to the series. The creators have already said this. The only way a hypothetical mention in Persona 5 would invalidate that is if they specifically call him another name, or say something that contradicts Arena.--Otherarrow 21:29, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

So if Persona 5 says something different about (Protagonist Persona 4) we can change it? That sound great and fair. --Cococrash11 21:43, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * We already know that his canon name is Yu Narukami, why do you want to change it so badly? If they mention him in Persona 5, it will surely be like there was a boy or he was... that will not change that his name will still be Yu Narukami, not mentioning his name doesn't mean that he wasn't called Yu Narukami. It's the same case with Tatsuya Suou, even though his name was on Innocent Sin, the player can still change it, and in voiced clips, they call him you in the boss battles, almost leaving his name ambiguous, but not until all the characters called him Tatsuya in Eternal Punishment, then why not change his article Protagonist (Persona 2: Innocent Sin). The same goes with Tamaki, she was named in Persona 1, which technically is a sequel to If... then again, why not change the article to Protagonist (Shin Megami Tensei: If...) which is the exact same case with Yu. -- Crok425 22:21, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Um, guys? I've seen some official material that still call him "Hero", so I'm wondering if the name is only for the arcade version to attract fans who have only seen the anime. How about we change it back to 'Protagonist (Persona 4)' and wait until both the console version of Arena and the Golden come out? If P2 is any indication, there's a possibility of them having the anime name by default.


 * EDIT: The Golden's site still has him as "Hero", making this change even more pointless. :/ CCMars 22:46, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Arena is still canon to the series. How many times must I say that? He is called Narukami in Arena, which is canon to the rest of the series. It doesn't matter if he is named "Yu Narukami" just to match up with the anime. The official materials you are referring to presumably predate Arena. (After all, Persona 4 has been out for a while, while Arena and the anime are both new.) Also, I doubt The Golden will give him an official name at all. Persona 4 didn't, and The Golden is just a port with extras of that. If I recall, If... got ports and rereleases after Persona, but it didn't have "Tamaki Uchida" as a default name for the protagonist.--Otherarrow 23:05, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Um, actually, the ones I saw came out after. All the material I'm talking about is related to Arena. Some material use the name, others do not. And considering Tamaki is only a minor character in Persona as opposed to Narukami/Souji/whatever being the main in nearly every P4 related material, I'm not sure that's the best comparison... CCMars 23:11, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I just checked the main P4U page. They have him listed as "Hero", but with "Yu Narukami" under parenthesis. The Arc version of the site (which focuses on the arcade version) only list him as 'Yu Narukami', making things even more confusing. CCMars 23:16, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT: Well, if you want to get technical, from the looks of things, Yu isn't the main character of Arena. Labrys is. I'll be honest, the only Arena related media I've seen that used "Protagonist" was the official site, which had "(Yu Narukami)" right next to it. All the actual gameplay I've seen just calls him Yu Narukami. I just assumed that they called him Protagonist in case people forgot that he was P4's protagonist. The site for the Arcade just calls him Yu Narukami, as you said. I'll be honest, I doubt they will rename him Protagonist again just for the home version.--Otherarrow 23:20, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

They are not going to change it back to protagonist, since it looks that he isn't the protagonist as you said. The same happened to Tatsuya, not being the MC of EP, the characters started to call him Tatsuya and he started speaking, so the article's name should remain as Yu Narukami.

EDIT: They are not going to change it because like I said before, the Atlus employe I talked about, said thath they are going to localize his name as Yu Narukami. -- Crok425 23:27, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

So basically, you're only changing it out of your own speculation (and where are you getting the idea that Labrys is the main character of Arena, anyway). Still, it's only the anime and Arena (which for some reason emphesizes the fact you can change the name in the console version) that uses that name. The problem with the Tatsuya argument is that the name has been used for every single P2 material from the very beginning. He-of-A-Thousand-Names does not have that excuse. That's why I'm weary about changing the name when not all of the material uses that name. CCMars 23:43, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I changed it because someone got proof that they will be calling him "Yu Narukami" in Arena. Arena is canon to the series. Nothing you will say changes that. It's that simple. Anyway, about Labrys being the Main Character, well, all of Arena's plot that we know is about her. The P3 characters came to Inaba searching for her, the main setting of the game is the "dungeon" formed around her when she got thrown into the TV world, the main antagonist is her Shadow, and every Arcade ending has her gaining her Persona. Also, where are you getting the idea you can change his name in the console version? Because one of the two official sites still calls him "Protagonist"? That doesn't tell us anything!--Otherarrow 23:49, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Found it! One of the Dengeki magazines had a mini-gude that again emphesised "Hero" and added "Yu Narukami" as an afterthought, despite past screenshots using "Yu Narukami" only. Other non-Arena articles also use "Hero". So, I don't think "Yu Narukami" is the The One Name That Rules Them All here. ^^; Besides, that's the thing: I don't know, and neither do you. For all we know, the two versions of Arena could be entirely different. So let's change it back for now, and then we'll debate on it once everything (Arena and Golden) is released. CCMars 23:57, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * As I said before, the Atlus employe said that they are going to localize his name as Yu Narukami, which is going to be his name in the console version, that is not going to change it, and as we said before, The Golden has nothing to do with it. As you said other non-Arena articles called him Hero, obviously, they are not going to call him Yu in a Persona 4: The Golden conference to make an example. -- Crok425 00:09, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT:::I'll be honest, I don't feel comfortable in moving it back to a "generic" name when a official, non-generic name for the character exists, and is in a canon game and all that hopdah. As for some magazine still calling him "Protagonist", well, he is primarily known as the protagonist of Persona 4, and as you said, it calls him Yu Narukami anyway. In the game, he is still called Yu Narukami. You saying that the home version of Arena will somehow "undo" that name and put him back to being a nameless protagonist is speculation, and one that is very likely to be false, as Atlus said they are calling him Yu Narukami in the localized version of the game. That was why the page was moved in the first place. I'd think it'd be easier for everyone to just leave it alone. I am not sure why you are trying to convince me though. I'm just one user. There are other users who oppose you trying to move it back. And, well, spin off or not, main character or not, Tamaki does set the standard for cases like this. If we move the P4 MC's page back to "Protagonist (Persona 4)", I'll move her page to "Protagonist (Shin Megami Tensei: if...)" just to be consistent.--Otherarrow 00:14, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

By the way...why is it what you say goes? I know I'm not the only one that opposed this. And why is what the actual main game and any other material (canon or non-canon) does less important than its spin-off? ...If also had more than one protagonist, and the one that did get a name became a minor character of a different spin-off with only hints at what happened in her game, so I'm not sure these two issues are the same. That's just me, though.
 * The question was whether they were going to use "Yuu" or "Yu" in localization. With the anime being hot at the moment and arcade games rarely (if ever) having name options, the use was pretty much inevitable. So, the console version may have Yu Narukami as a suggested name, a la every other game with a name-change option. Otherwise, why would they have "Yu Narukami" as an afterthought? Even so, this would be fine exept for one problem: there's more than one version of his name out there, so it's not exactly set in stone like Tatsuya is, and that's my problem with this article's title change. I hope that makes more sense.
 * Besides, you just kind of changed the article's name without any real debate. You just saw the sentence of what they're going to use at the Atlus site and went from your own interpretation of it. I'm not sure why it's so hard to wait until everything is released before changing anything anyway. CCMars 00:28, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, it kinda is set in stone, even HERE says that Persona 4: Arena is canon for good, Kazuhisa Wada, the director, said that. And I agree, there is a second name for him, and that's Souji Seta, but Atlus said that the manga is not canon, it's a manga adaptation of P4, but P4 Arena isn't a fighting game adaptation of P4. If... having two protagonist is not a different issue, since Persona 1 said that that Tamaki, the female one, was the canon protagonist of If... and that her canon name is Tamaki Uchida. I'm not trying to convince Otherarrow, I just want to prove the fact that his name is Yu Narukami now. It wasn't inevitable to put him Yu Narukami, if it was inevitable, then they would have named him Souji Seta, since far back when the game was announced, all the fans prefered Souji Seta as his name. Again, I state, I just want to prove the fact of his name. I didn't changed the article's name just because the sentence, the Atlus employe which is from ATLUS said that his name is localized as Yu Narukami, if you remember well, I didn't changed his name when Arena wasn't announced for NA, so it is a real debate. -- Crok425 00:36, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

-
 * EDIT CONFLICT:I wasn't the one who moved it! Check the history before you throw around your baseless accusations CCMars! I moved it back after someone else moved it without giving any reason for their move! Also, when Arena's official site first came out, I asked if we should move it, and everyone said that we should wait until we get it in English. And, look, we got it in English! (Sure, just clarification of how the name would be romanized, but it does confirm that in the English localization, they are using the name) I am not saying it should be "Yu Narukami" because I said it should. I never said that. I said that I support it being at Yu Narukami because that is the name given to him in Arena, which is canon to the series. Are you reading my posts at all? Also, we have seen nothing from the home version, so what you are saying is pretty much just you speculating based on advertisement. The same way you are not the only one who opposes the move, I am not the only one who supports it. Stop treating me like I'm the only one oppossing you. Honestly? You are starting to bother me. I've tried to just stop this politely, but you keep responding, and now you are getting rude about it.--Otherarrow 00:38, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

He's right, I'm the one who moved the article, and it's also true that everyone said to wait, even I said that. Sure, CCMars is speculating over if they are going to undo his name and made him be a nameless character, but of course I'm kind of speculating too because they just recently announce Arena, but it's a fact that his name is Yu Narukami now. -- Crok425 00:45, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Read again what I said. I'm not debating any canon. I don't care what's canon or what's not. The problem is Yu Narukami is not always the name used, plus he uses a different name in other official - canon or no - material. If's female protagonist never had another name other than Tamaki outside of that game (the first NA version of Persona does not count). P4's protagonist has. That the main website FOR ARENA, not to mention Dengenki's little booklet - ALSO FOR ARENA - puts an emphesis on "Hero" and adds "Yu Narukami" as an afterthought is strange to me. Golden (a port of the main game) and anything related to P4 outside the anime rarely - if ever - uses it.
 * tl;dr - This name is not completely set like Tamaki or Tatsuya. 
 * Besides, keep in mind the orignal game was NOT everyone's introduction to Persona 4, so it's no surpise they used Yu Narukami for the arcade version of Arena.
 * And once again, why is it your way or the highway here?


 * I apologize if I seem rude to you, Otherarrow, as that was not my intention. I was addressing both of you, not just you, so I should have written that better. Again, I apologize. However, you're not exactly listening to me either. I'm just not sure why we have to change anything based on sheer speculation. CCMars 00:59, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Not listening is not an excuse to be rude, besides, Otherarrow is kind of out in this discussion since it seems that he doesn't wants to be part of it, and believe me, I don't wanna be part of it either, because you are the one who is not listening. I'm not being rude with you CCMars, so stop using terms like everything as you say goes because it's not true, no one does that here. If I had done that, Great Mara, most of all, would have reverted it without a second thought, but he agreed on changing it, and do you think that one Atlus employe would make the decision on his own and not talk about with the head of the company? No one in a company is that arrogant, so it goes at how it is now. As I stated before, Souji Seta is non a canon name, Atlus said, but Yu Narukami is, again, Atlus said it. -- Crok425 01:06, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT:::Honestly? Because it's not speculation. It's not like we are guessing that his name is Yu Narukami in Arena. It pretty clearly shows that as his name in the game. That's the whole reason we even considered moving the page. Also, I will just say that I think you are putting too much weight into this Degenki thing, but that is just my opinion. And, well, I'll be blunt, I've been trying to hint this, but now I'm just going to say it outright: Stop talking about this on my talk page.. Seriously, this isn't getting anywhere, and you are getting rude and I am getting mad.--Otherarrow 01:11, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * A shesh... sorry about that, man. We'll follow the discussion in th Protagonist's talk page. -- Crok425 01:16, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry Crok, that was directed more at CCMars than you. But yes, this isn't the place for all of the discussion on this. The talk page is! I've said my bit.--Otherarrow 01:18, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Otherarrow, I'll be glad to do so, and I apologize for bothering you. I am only answering you two. CCMars 01:20, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Ogun
Have you played Devil Survivor 2 or remember how his name is written in Strange Journey? Because I can't remember one instance where his name is written as Ogoun. Message 01:45, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I only recall him from Persona, where he is Ogun. Is Ogoun a fan translation thing or something? I'd move it.--Otherarrow 02:26, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it was another of one of Pinkie's little wonderful ideas but I wasn't sure so I wanted to double check. I'll go see if I can find a FAQ or something. UserGreatMara.pngge 02:48, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ultimate Navbox
I say keep it yellow. Also don't forget to add this link: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Changes_in_Persona_4:_Arena Zahlzeit 00:50, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

There isn't that good of a juxtaposition with the white and yellow. Maybe make the text red to match the title logo? Or will that be confusing because it'll look like a broken link? Well if it's that or if that looks ugly I guess black will do.

Photos
Could you delete ? I added it today but messed up (not a default picture) and added the correct one. Similarly, can you delete the low quality P4 anime pictures? Zahlzeit 14:33, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Great Mara already got to it. As for the anime pictures, I'd love to delete all of them, but I think the consensus was to keep them or something? Something like that.--Otherarrow 16:47, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Oh you're right. He/she did. Great Mara is a fast bugger.

Anyway, I figured as much. I'm talking about the really low quality ones or just the more unprofessional ones though. A good example is this one of Chie. Looks like one of you guys got to it as I was typing. Nevermind. I'm going to try to clean up the gallery of the now-dead-links then. Zahlzeit 16:51, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I found an excuse to delete them. Most of them have really bad and uninformative filenames. Like, I think there was one of Narukami titled just "que". Que? Sadly, I had to delete what appeared to be info on a Elizabeth statue thing because the filename was all numbers, but rules are rules I guess.--Otherarrow 16:53, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

That's a really sneaky loop hole. In all seriousness, ? Augh. Zahlzeit 16:56, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I deleted all of that set either because they were misnamed (Most of them didn't even have Kanji in them) or because they were just low quality (and I think we have higher quality screenshots of most of these early episodes somewhere anyway)--Otherarrow 16:57, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be more deleted if it's for the reason of clearing low quality pictures? Like some of the Rise ones even have a lot of JPG artifacts. Zahlzeit 17:01, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm slugging through these as they come up on the "New Images" page. I'm pretty much going through them in reverse chronological order.--Otherarrow 17:03, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay. Thanks. Zahlzeit 17:05, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Oh and delete any full-body images of Devil Survivor 2 characters that have a white background. I'll replace them all with their high res, transparent background ones soon. Zahlzeit 17:27, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Appearances
IMAGINE is not a part of the main series. Also we need some way of deciding what we really want the appearances sections to look like because there's way too much differing opinions on the matter. Great Mara, and a lot of other people I've talked to, really prefer the chronological order but you seem to like grouping by series. Personally I'm with ordering chronologically unless a game is a direct sequel or remake of the other (Persona 2 duology, P3+P3FES+P3P, etc.)


 * According to the IMAGINE page it takes place between SMT and SMT II, which is why I've started placing it according to the format on my Sandbox page. Basically what series came first will have its sequels listed under it and will be listed in that order. I've got the write up for that format on my Sandbox but maybe we really should try to get everyone together to see if we can agree on a concrete policy for sections in the Manual of Style.


 * Also, I might be a bit before responding. I'm currently on my lunch break at work and have about 10 minutes until I have to get back to it. UserGreatMara.pngge 18:21, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT::That's understandable, though I do find it kinda bizarre when, for instance, a demon appears in both Devil Survivor and Devil Survivor 2, but there are a few games between the two entries, or when there is a lengthy gap between the SMTII entry and the SMTIII one. But maybe it's just me. As for IMAGINE, I heard somewhere that it was in continuity with SMT and SMT2, but eh, I can see why it wouldn't "count". Of course, which ever order we decide on, I'll be happy to go with. Of course, what would be a direct sequel? For example, the 4 (6, whatever) Persona games are in the same world and are in continuity with each other, but aside from a few references or cameos, are pretty much self contained. Would they be grouped together or split up? Sorry for the trouble.
 * EDIT:I am fine with the order proposed in Great Mara's sandbox page.--Otherarrow 18:24, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

A lot of the appearances sections are screwed up which is why it's like that. Also the lengthy gap between SMTII and SMTIII is because some people go pure chronological order. You make a good point about the sequel stuff though. I say go pure chronological to make things easy.

What is even the basis of Great Mara's Sandbox page? I can't make heads or tails out of it. Zahlzeit 18:31, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh I just remembered you guys are admins now. I think this might be worth putting as a poll .Zahlzeit 18:47, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer a forum, so we can discuss it with the other users, get some ideas we may not have thought of out there, that sort of thing. It's up to you guys though.--Otherarrow 18:49, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * How about both? Zahlzeit 19:04, March 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * We need to settle this pretty soon. I'm finding way too many pages with way too many Appearance styles and it's one of the first steps to improving these pages. Zahlzeit 22:27, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you guys make the forum page, or the poll, or whatever? I don't think that just asking the admins to fix it will help if users who are not the admins are the ones doing it differently.--Otherarrow 23:31, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm just a normal user and you guys are the admins, who pretty much set the rules if I'm not mistaken. I asked so we could finally settle on something and actually work towards arranging them properly and consistently. I just asked the SMT community I'm with on their opinion and it was mostly in favor of a pure chronological order. Zahlzeit 23:38, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Deleting Pictures
Oh and next time you delete pictures, which is fine of course, please remember what the origin of the pictures are from and to clean them from the gallery they came from. Zahlzeit 02:26, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry about that. I'll be sure to remember to do that next time.--Otherarrow 02:27, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Request to Delete P4U Pictures
Could you delete and ? They're just screencaps of the site and just contain bio info which is already on the wiki anyway. Zahlzeit 02:00, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for the heads up.--Otherarrow 02:01, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Got another one. I don't think we REALLY need two pictures of the character select screen. The other one is fine since it shows off character portraits but this one is practically the same as the Naoto/Teddie one. Zahlzeit 02:04, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry. Just got another. This is that aforementioned character portraits screenshot but I just found out there was already a Kanji/Yukiko one that shows off the same thing but in better quality. Zahlzeit 02:09, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ariadne/Palladion
There is a Youtube video entitled "Persona 4: The Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena - Labrys Gameplay (part 2/2)" where the person playing is using Labrys in her Aigis alt color, with Ariadne as Palladion. In your edit summary you say Ariadne in this color looks nothing like it, but I respectfully disagree here and say that the Ariadne in that video is clearly colored after Palladion. Strain42 21:31, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * We have an image on the Wiki of Labrys and her persona in that palette. Try and tell me this looks like this.--Otherarrow 21:33, April 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I actually posted that picture lol but that picture doesn't specify that that Ariadne goes with that Labrys. All I ask is that you please check out this video I mentioned (seen here) and then tell me that this Ariadne isn't colored after Palladion. Strain42 21:37, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right. However, you uploaded a misleading and incorrect image. Why? Why did you do that? By your little screw up, you tricked the Wiki and all of it's followers into thinking that those palettes went together. Did you think it did? Or were you just uploading from somewhere else, without stopping to check your facts? Forgive me if this comes off as rude, but all this confusion is your fault. Don't do something stupid like that again, OK? I am actually kinda mad at you right now.--Otherarrow 21:43, April 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * It was not my intention to mislead or confuse anyone. Originally I uploaded that picture for one reason and one reason only. At the time, that was the only decent picture of Ariadne that anyone seemed to have, and I put it on the page since there was no other photo available on Ariadne's page. I never claimed that the two went together. I myself did not believe that they went together (In fact I thought I even posted it with a caption saying otherwise, but I could be mistaken) I simply uploaded it as a placeholder image until we had official artwork of Ariadne to take its place. I apologize for the confusion caused, but I do hope we can clear things up. Strain42 21:55, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. Thanks. Well, the image is gone, and the mix up corrected. Sorry for getting mad and calling you an idiot. I admit, I acted more emotionally than I should. Thank you for your correction, and I hope I didn't just spoil your opinion of me or anything like that.--Otherarrow 21:59, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Important P4U trivia please read

 * Yu is a reference to Ragna because they both use swords and slash upwards in one of their attacks.


 * Naoto is a reference to Baiken in GGXX because uhhh they both want to be guys at some point in the stories.


 * Aigis is a reference to Justice and Tager because there are clearly no robots in fighting games except for those guys

i am clearly competent and not pulling at strings
 * Heh. I admit, that made me smile.--Otherarrow 02:46, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

SMT2 Template Redesign
"I have no clue in what order I am putting the NPCs in though."

I'll ask people who know SMT2 about it later to figure out an order. Zahlzeit 21:52, April 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * You'd do that for me? Thanks. I admit, while I know the basic plot of SMT II, I don't know the details, so I don't know who comes in when and so on.--Otherarrow 02:46, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Picture Removal Request: Nicaea
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Nicaea_B_ver..jpg

Pretty unprofessional with that logo at the bottom. I replaced it already.

Animation/Anime Merge (backup)
Hey Otherarrow, in case Mara can't pick this up, those two pages are on the wiki and they're exactly the same, would it be possible for you to merge them? Also, could the page Episode 29 - Sphinx don't let anyone control your heart. be deleted or something? Because it doesn't refer to any page in particular at all, like someone just put it here for no reason at all.

Also, I'll be making a page for the DDS OVA, you know, the one with Loki rape? That needs to be in the animation section. --BOXN 01:45, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well the novel had Loki rape too, technically. Don't worry, I'll take care of it.--Otherarrow 01:51, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

SMT2 Template
B-but I did! o_õ

Also, you weren't justifying your changes too, you know? >_>

Anyway, sorry then. So, here's the deal:

1) I think the way you are dividing the characters as "playable" and "unplayable" isn't really... fair. I mean, under the right circumstances, even Satan and Lucifer could become playable characters, so why not put them together with Hiroko and Beth? It's simple: because it's going to be weird as hell, that's why.

So I preferred the "main character/minor character" method because, frankly, that's the way it always were, even before I started updating the 'Shin Megami Tensei II'' pages. I don't really like changing'' things. I just add stuff.

2) If you are going to put all the non-playable characters from the game in the template, it's just going to become a huge mess. I mean, Haneda? Seriously? Putting him in the same category as YHVH for example... that's just wrong. That's why I didn't created any new pages for every minor character, and just decided to organize them all together in one place (the Shin Megami Tensei II page, characters section).

I'm not saying that you need to delete the pages of those characters that you (it was you, right?) created. I'm just saying that, you know, it's too irrelevant information. I suggest we exclude any character, save YHVH, that doesn't have an updated artwork for the Shin Megami Tensei II remake-- that's the only excuse I could find to myself to permit Red Bear to be in that template.

3) Some of the tags that you put on the "Terms" section don't even exist, and I doubt there is information enough about them for us make a stand-alone page for all of them. “The Colosseum" I was going to eventually describe in the Valhalla section of the Tokyo Millenium's page anyway; and the "Virtual Battler" could be inserted somewhere there, I think.

Also, the "Old Tokyo" should be a tag for Shin Megami Tensei I, not II. Unless you are referring to the "Underworld", which I would propose we do one of those two things:

a) Transform the name of the page from "Old Tokyo" to "Underworld", and extract the Underworld section from the Tokyo Millenium page, in order to do a new page.

or

b) Exclude "Old Tokyo" from the template.

Also, I don't really think the Cult of Gaea needs any mention here. They are obviously not as important to the plot as they were in the first game. Also, wouldn't Kuzuryu too be considered an unplayable character? His page can refer to him as a "super-weapon", but he IS technically a demon. Anyway, if we are going to put stuff as this in the template, then we might as well do it for Eden, the Pillars, the Dolls, you know where I'm getting at, right?

...

Nevertheless, I didn't knew you were trying to make the template in the best accordance to the ones from other games. I'm sorry. >:\

Still, as I said... it was ALWAYS like that, so why are you changing it just now that I started updating things anyway? It feels like you're just being mean about it. D:

Kuronekoekoeko 01:27, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * The SMTII template before was kinda...bad. No real organization to it at all, all of the characters just thrown in without any real rhyme or reason to them. If you notice, I did cave and put Lucifer, Satan, and Cerberus in with the human playables. As for putting minor NPCs like in with, say, YHVH, that is just how it falls. The other templates don't try to filter out NPCs according to importance. As for Old Tokyo, I'll change it to the Underground, and split that from Tokyo Millennium. It and Millennium aren't considered by the game to be the same place anyway, so I always thought lumping them together was odd.--Otherarrow 01:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kuronekooekoeko, the template is made to fit the other templates. Also sure, they may be playable but they aren't playable and also have a major role on top of that. You could even say they're not the same exact demon like how there's more than one Jack Frost and such. There are a lot of holes in your argument besides that too.


 * Otherarrow. Couldn't get a proper order for the SMT2 list but someone said it's fine as is--the order I would assume. Just seperate the characters but keep them the same order. Also the characters that don't have pages don't have them for a reason. For example for one of the NPCs one person just said that she doesn't even have art or isn't significant at all. Zahlzeit 01:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are talking about Anoon, I know she has art. I've seen it before. I think one of the remakes added it. Although the site where I found it seems to have gone down. If you are talking about Puck and mistaken him for a girl, well, OK fine. Puck was a punk anyway. As for the "some characters don't have pages because they don't need them." thing, Meraka is a fairly important NPC, and his relatively unimportant scientist buddy got an article over him. It seems to be more that people just haven't gotten around to making these articles.--Otherarrow 01:40, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I reread a log of what he said. It was Haneda actually but since a page is already written for him, whatever. Secondly there was Oberon and Amaterasu since he said they didn't have any roles except for praising you for freeing them. Zahlzeit 01:47, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, removing Oberon and Amaterasu. Also, I confused Haneda for the other scientist guy (though I think someone did make an article for him.) Thanks for helping me out here.--Otherarrow 01:54, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but as you insisted, I'm putting everything and anything there.

And yes, they don't directly enter the party, but if that was a requirement, then I would have put every demon available in the game. The difference is that the Amatsukami clearly state that they will aid Aleph in battle if he wishes, which means that the demons you summon at the Jakyou Manor ARE the ones you just rescued from the sealed cave-- in other words, they are characters.

The same goes for Ishtar and Ashtar, which I just added.

... btw, that's the reason I just removed Oberon from the template.

The one who is the ruler of Shinjuku isn't necessary the same one you can fuse or find at dungeons, for example.
 * I'll be honest, I am getting the impression you are just trying to spite me at this point. Don't get personal. If they have to be fused, then they aren't playables. You don't have to fuse Lucifer, Satan, Cerberus, etc. That is the only reason I am letting them in. Otherwise, yes, as you said, we'd be letting in any demon in the game. Also, I think you still have to fuse Ishtar even after you split Astaroth. Also note that I never insisted on putting everything and anything. Now you are just putting words in my mouth.--Otherarrow 15:27, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

HUH?

Dude, I really ain't getting what judgement you are using to edit the tags here, seriously.

I just said: they are characters of the story, not just simple random encounters, so why not put them there? I'm trying to do things your way here, or I would just have edited it back the way it always where.

If they don't deserve to be considered playable character just because they have to be fused, that doesn't make any sense. If there can't be requirements for them to get into your party for they to be considered characters, than Satan and Lucifer also wouldn't count (since they are only playable if you are going for the law or chaos ending, respectively). I'm putting the demons there not because they're playable, but because they're playable characters. Isn't that's what this is all about?

. ..

And well, I didn't said you said that, that's just the conclusion I'm getting at here: create pages for everyone and everything, and putting them all into the template.

As I said, I don't really agree with you, but if we are going to do things this way, then we might as well do it right. o3o

But well, if you're getting the feelings this is going to become a discussion or something, then I might as well give up.

Tell you what, I'm just going to keep working at the main pages that already exists. Okay then? Okay. q
 * I axed Amaterasu and her ilk because people were commenting that she was too minor, more of a "hi and bye, oh, and don't forget that you can fuse me now" than a real character. Now that you bring it up, I would like to argue on if there is a difference between "player" and "playable". I noticed that the SMT1 and Nocturne templates only have a small number of characters under "player", basicly, the core humans and the companions, with a few exceptions like Pascal and Dante/Raidou, who are treated more as "human" allies rather than demons (they can't be put in the comp, they can't be fused or summoned, they don't eat MAG, etc). I am pretty sure that there are a few other demons who join automatically in those games, so why aren't they in there too? My guess is because, while they are "playable", they aren't "player". Am I correct? It seems I've been doing it wrong this whole time. As for the "they aren't just random encounters, so they count as characters" thing, well, so do bosses, and we aren't adding every boss to the template. Think of them like "Unique" demons in later games. There are only one of them, and you can thus only have only one of them (in games where you can have multiples of a demon of course), but they aren't really part of the plot, outside of maybe the events where you unlock the right to fuse them. It would be like adding the Heroes to the Devil Survivor 2 template, IMO.--Otherarrow 18:09, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT:I am sorry if I came off as hostile. I've been working on cleaning the template up, and while I have no problem with you disagreeing with me on how it works (discussion is good), I feel that you are getting rather belligerent and rude about it. I also feel that there may be some misunderstanding as well. I am sorry.--Otherarrow 18:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Force and Wind Merging
Shouldn't we merge the Force and Wind Spell sections? They are practically the same thing just referred to by different names, right? Zahlzeit 21:02, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the first Persona, Force spells were a subtype of spells (consisting of Nuclear, Gravity, Electricity and Blast) that stood in opposition to the standard Element spells (Fire, Ice, Earth and Wind). So, yeah, Force has been used for something that isn't just renamed Wind. For the longest time, I thought that Wind being called Force was something the early games did, but apparently games as recent as Devil Survivor 2 uses it too?--Otherarrow 21:06, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * If Devil Survivor 2 follows Devil Survivor's system then yes. I'm playing around on Devil Survivor right now and wind spells are referred to as Force Spells. UserGreatMara.pngge 21:09, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, isn't that confusing? I thought that the Garu line has been categorized as "Wind" for some time now. Wonder why they went back to Force? Of course, I think some Force categories use the Zan line instead of the Garu line, and Zan was Blast in P1. So confusing!--Otherarrow 21:14, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yu Trivia
I don't know. It's not inaccurate and it is trivial knowledge. What are your thoughts? Zahlzeit 00:01, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems like it really could be just a coincidence. I mean, Electro Speed doesn't seem like it's a intentional reference to Quick Attack, but rather an electric, speedy attack. Because Narukami/Izanagi is electric themed. Quick Attack is speedy, but not electric. I guess I will have to see the attack to be sure. I don't really like when people try to force something as a reference without being sure.--Otherarrow 00:13, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. Lets leave it as you left it. Zahlzeit 00:27, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Source for Marie
Do you mean for the part about online capabilities or for Marie being the one to explain/distribute them? Because there is really is online stuff in Golden now apparently. Zahlzeit 17:47, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Marie being the one linked to it. I don't doubt that there will be online stuff. As for Marie, all we know about her is that she exists, has ties to Igor, and shows up in the Velvet Room at some point for unknown reasons.--Otherarrow 18:36, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion request of an old photo on the SJ Protagonist Page
. I just replaced it. Zahlzeit 20:57, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

SMT Template
Fellow editor asked what does MAG mean on the SMT template? And what exactly is NOA? We know that it's number of attacks but for pixie it says 1-7 although apparently it can never do more than one. Is this just incorrect information? Zahlzeit 14:29, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thino "Number of Attacks" actually stands for number of hits, like sometimes when you attack with some weapons, it hits multiple times in a single attack? Of course, it is possible that the pixie entry could just be wrong. As for MAG, it stands for Magnetite, and I think the MAG stat is how much MAG they consume with each step and I think how much is needed to summon them.--Otherarrow 14:34, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Number of Hits sounds pretty legit. Should I change the template? Zahlzeit 14:37, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Go ahead.--Otherarrow 14:47, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Common.css
Who has privledges to it? I'm trying to add class codes but I'm a normal user. Do I have to be an admin or do I need to be a sysop? Zahlzeit 19:37, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly? I don't know! What do you need it for?--Otherarrow 19:39, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I need it to add class codes, like I said. I made a gallery template as you can see in use here: Protagonist (Persona 3). The purpose is because the P3/P4 pages in particular, especially P4U's page, have HUGE galleries and this makes the page look cleaner. Class codes would allow me to actually add colors specific to the series (blue for P3, yellow for P4, etc.) just in case there needs to be more than one gallery on one page. I could always just make two gallery templates but that'd be kind of crazy--I'd rather edit the MediaWiki and add class codes instead. Zahlzeit 19:46, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I have no clue what class codes even are, so I think you should ask Bluer or someone else with more know how about this sorta thing. Sorry that I can't be of help here.--Otherarrow 19:49, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Is he even active? Well I guess it's worth a shot. Zahlzeit 19:51, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Found it: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css. We should be able to edit it but I have no idea how to manipulate things using it. UserGreatMara.pngge 20:27, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it seems that I can edit it, though I have no clue what to do though.--Otherarrow 20:30, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I knew where it was but I mean I can't edit it. I could tell you guys what to put in but I tend to need to play around with things a lot as you have already seen from my editing style. Zahlzeit 21:06, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Kyuyaku spites
I got the Kyuyaku sprites from this site= http://f46.aaacafe.ne.jp/~aqul/aton/

I think they have nearly all the sprites from the older SMT games.

Shiizuko 19:47, April 18, 2012 (UTC)Shiizuko
 * Wonderful! Thanks a bunch!--Otherarrow 19:49, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

List of Megami Ibunroku Persona Bosses
I'm not really in a position to add anything to this page at the moment, so I was wondering what your opinion was. Should I add formatting sections so people like that anon can fill it in appropriately or delete the page until someone is ready to seriously work on it? Message 02:02, April 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * There aren't that many bosses, so I can probably fill it out using the P3 bosses page as a reference. However, I think that there is no real in game list of bosses, so I have to go by memory.--Otherarrow 02:37, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Picture Deletion Request
These pictures have already been replaced with higher res versions.

x

x

x

Zahlzeit 02:59, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * The three that I left link straight to the image, not the file page, so I can't delete them. Could you repost the links to those images?--Otherarrow 03:04, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:AquansSMTIII.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:11-SMT010.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:12-yoma_apsaras.jpg
 * 16:24, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Admin Status
Is there a way you guys can do it? I'm getting itchy on wanting to collapse those galleries. -- Zahlzeit 18:50, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure only Bureaucrats can do it. Sorry.--Otherarrow 19:48, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

List of removed gallery images
Hi, while uploading hires Nocturne demon compendium images, I removed several older images that became redundant. Here is the list of them:

I was told to send this list to you as per Zahlzeit's instructions. Thanks.

McPwned 04:54, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, I took care of it. Thanks for the heads up!--Otherarrow 05:02, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Icon Deletion Request
I thought the old icons on the front page were washed out, badly cropped, off center, or just plain low quality. I hence replaced them with better ones. The old ones need deleting now:

Old Merchandise Icon: BoxMPMerchandise.PNG

Old Animation Icon: BoxMPAnimation.PNG

Failed Animation Icon: Animation_Icon_(P4A_Kanji).png

Old Locations Icon: BoxMPLocations.PNG

Old Music Icon: BoxMPAlbums.PNG

Old Characters Icon: BoxMPCharacters.PNG Old Demons Icon: BoxMPDemons.PNG Old Enemies Icon: BoxMPEnemies.PNG Old Items Icon: BoxMPItems.PNG Old Mechanics Icon: BoxMPMechanics.PNG Old Games Icon: BoxMPGames.PNG Failed Series Icon: ShinMegamiTenseiLogo.png

-- Zahlzeit 06:30, April 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you could have just uploaded new versions of the files bot okay xD MinatoHikari 05:35, April 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * It replaces faster this way, in my opinion. -- Zahlzeit 05:36, April 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, cool icons =D These days I was thinking that the wiki needed a little "update" on the design =] keep up the good work ^^ MinatoHikari 05:41, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Deleted. Message 06:40, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Thousand Year Kingdom
Er... "official"?

There isn't an "official" term. The game wasn't translated, remember?

Still, I preffer 'Thousand Year Kingdom', since is the term that Aeon Genesis went with in it's translation of the game, and the term that Re-Miel uses in his own translation.

... The japanese term can be translated as both, so technicaly neither are wrong. I just use the most common term for the sake of it: if you don't want to confuse people, how do you think they are going to react if we use one term in the wikia, and they see another in the game itself? They will naturaly think they are two different things.

I think we should stay as faithful as we can to what we currently have as an english translation.

... Still, gonna leave it as it is if you don't agree with me. It's up to you. @@
 * I want to say the term comes up in IMAGINE. IMAGINE was officially translated. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other games mention it somewhere as well, like in that time stream dungeon part in the first Raidou game? I doubt the wiki editors just pulled it out of their ass.--Otherarrow 16:40, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion Request
Could you go to Great Mara's talk page and delete the photos that I sent to him? He's probably in class now. -- Zahlzeit 18:10, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I took care of it.--Otherarrow 18:15, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Space Marine's Eyes
They are; you can notice it really quickly if you put a picture of all of the Kaneko protagonists and compare them. I guess droopy is not the right word for it but I don't know what is. -- Zahlzeit 19:48, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I presumed the change in the eyes was more because of a change in facial structure. Most of Kaneko's characters tend to have more younger, slender faces, while the Marine has a different type of facial structure, more "built" for lack of a better term. He also appears to be older than the other protagonists Kaneko has designed by a noticeable margin. But yeah, there is a difference there, but I would call it droopy. Weary maybe, implying that he has been fighting for a while or the like?--Otherarrow 22:09, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Weary isn't it but I think you're on the ball for the facial structure thing. I don't know what to write about that though. -- Zahlzeit 22:18, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Also if you can try to work on the Soul Hackers navigation box. If you can't do that at least suggest what colors I should use for the Soul Hackers character infoboxes. -- Zahlzeit 22:21, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know pretty much nothing about Soul Hackers, sorry. As for the colors, I'm thinking a blue to match the title logo?--Otherarrow 23:27, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll figure out something. Also can you delete this picture?
 * Both her sprite and portrait are on her page so it's kind of redundant to have this around. -- Zahlzeit 01:42, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done!--Otherarrow 01:54, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Image Deletion Request
Old Music Icon: Old 3DS Remake Icon:

Both have been replaced. -- Zahlzeit 05:09, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done!--Otherarrow 12:50, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Stub pages
I personally believe that people are more likely to find or edit a page that already exists than one that does not exist. That is why I created all those stub pages so people would notice the lack of information and fill it in.
 * You put no effort in making those pages at all. That won't make people want to edit the pages. That will make people think that the wiki is just lazy and is boosting the page count by making junk pages. The people who have the info about those pages can make those pages. Allow me to be blunt: If you can't even muster up the effort to make the most bare bone of pages, don't make pages at all. You have to actually make page for people to edit it, and these blank pages aren't really pages.--Otherarrow 15:29, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Adding onto this to whomever may be reading, this goes the same for sections in pages. You could at least write something like in the old Space Marine Design section, "He wears a Demonica"--at the very least. Otherwise for all of those random DeSur2 story sections that keep getting added or whatever, if they're deleted, they're deleted for a reason. People like BOXN and I know how to add sections when we want to contribute information so it's fine. -- Zahlzeit 16:51, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Demon Painter
Actually I realized that after I made the change but I guess it didn't hurt is all. Whatever works I guess. -- Zahlzeit 14:19, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

"Trolling"
They're not really trolling as much as bluntly stating their opinion, I apologize on their behalf especially since I know them and nearly all of the vandalizers on this wiki anyway. -- Zahlzeit 03:33, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * "Luvil isn't trolling, he's just shitposting". Fixed. I am being very blunt, but I even suggested a way for Minako to proof-read her work before she posts it on the wiki. --BOXN 03:43, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * You are fine I guess. Sorry if I overreacted.--Otherarrow 12:18, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Labrys in P4
She never shows up in P4, even in The Golden so yes, the P4 template does not belong there at all. People who think so are probably getting mixed up by the screenshots of the Arena storymode which look like as if she's in The Golden or something. -- Zahlzeit 17:49, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought. Well, the Arena template I made and put there should help be done with that.--Otherarrow 17:59, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Force/Wind/etc.
Yeah everyone I talked to said to leave it as different elements as they are clearly not the same thing. -- Zahlzeit 23:48, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, so we split Zan off the Wind page then? Of course, the thing is, what do we do with the Persona Force type, which seems to be a more vague thing exclusive to the first Persona. I'll figure something out. Thanks for all your help.--Otherarrow 00:44, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

sorry for editing your post.

i just wanted to know why SJ doesn`t fit in the timeline.

ican understand nocturne but not sj.
 * Well for one, Strange Journey has humanity first learning about the existence of demons, and it is set in a modern/futuristic setting...One that the main timeline features in for all of two minutes before everything gets nuked to all hell. If Strange Journey is set in 2010, then it can't be set in the world of SMTI, where everything is nuked in 199X. Also, Mara calls back to Nocturne, which in turn calls back to SMTII, so although they are each set in different worlds from each other and I/II, Nocturne and Strange Journey are set later on the metaphysical timeline. If that makes sense.--Otherarrow 02:37, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

New MoS
Please review it and before actually changing it, give me feedback. I probably have forgotten something or missed something as a lack of sleep. When I wake up, I will go over it again and revise anything I see wonky and include Great Mara's and your opinions or discuss anything that needs discussing.


 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Megami_Tensei_Wiki:Manual_of_Style

Please and thank you. -- Zahlzeit 09:04, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Persona 1 Character Images.
The main pictures for characters should be:


 * 1) of the highest quality
 * 2) transparent backgrounds, if any exists
 * 3) and most recent, simply and if only because it usually fulfills point 1

That's the criteria I've been using, and it's reasonable, isn't it? I'll replace Yukino's eventually too. So yes, we should be replacing Aigis P3 art with Arena art--I think Soejima drew her better in there anyway. The same goes for remake art for PSP Persona 1, but I didn't think any existed?

And yes, this affects all other main pics. This is in the new MoS but I'm not sure if I was clear since I wrote it kind of late. -- Zahlzeit 02:17, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

Oh but for example the P4 characters and P3 characters that Crok made transparent backgrounds should stay. Transparent background'd images should have the highest priority to be candidates for the main picture. -- Zahlzeit 02:24, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

One more thing, do you know the exact nickname the P1 protagonist was given in the PSP remake of Persona 1? I think we should name it similar to the Demi-fiend article complete with the template. -- Zahlzeit 02:25, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked over the new MoS, but I didn't see anything about how old or new the images are. Maybe I was just not looking hard enough. But yeah, I can understand your point. As for the Persona 1 PSP art, it does exist, though I think most of it is Soejima (I assume it was Soejima. It doesn't seem to be Kaneko's style) redrawing the Kaneko art, pose and all. The reason I brought it up is mostly that some of the character designs have noticeably changed between games, and I was wondering if that would be a issue or not. As for the P1 guy, he has no default name of any kind, though I think in Eternal Punishment, he is credited as "Boy with Earring" and I think his Japanese nickname is "Pierced Ear Boy".--Otherarrow 02:29, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * The original P2 art was Soejima too, just imitating Kaneko's art I'm pretty sure. As for the design issue, elaborate? I don't see why this is a problem to be perfectly honest, I'm not trying to jab you or anything. I heard about Boy with Earring as his name in EP too but I was trying to figure out if he had a PSP P1 remake nickname since that would probably the one that is going to be used in PSP EP but I guess not. "Boy with Earring" it is. Also, can you delete this image?
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Strike_Team_Guy.png
 * I just realized it was just Tyler when he was an unnamed soldier, so it's practically a duplicate of another image that's on the wiki. -- Zahlzeit 02:45, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I am pretty sure that the original P2 art was Kaneko, while Soejima did the portraits and such. Kaneko was the primary artist for the whole series at the time. As for the design issue, look at, say, Yukino in Persona 1 and Yukino in Persona 2. While you can still tell they are the same person, she has a noticeably different outfit and hair style. All of the returning P1 characters are like this. But I guess it's not an issue.--Otherarrow 03:05, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well yeah, as I was saying, what is the problem if that character looks different? And what makes you think the original P2 art was Kaneko? Just because the art was old, there is black lipstick, and long eyelashes doesn't necessarily mean it's Kaneko or else the new EP PSP artwork done by Doi was actually Kaneko too. The thing about the P2 art and stuff is that it really feels stiff among other things that don't make it seem like Kaneko. -- Zahlzeit 03:20, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I mean I'm pretty sure he did the concept design and stuff but Soejima was the one who actually drew the characters. -- Zahlzeit 03:21, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I am fairy certain that the only things Soejima drew for the PSX versions were the portraits, though I want to say that he did most of the character designing. But Kaneko is credited as "Main Character Designer" for those versions, so trying to argue that the art credited to him wasn't him is kinda, well, absurd. Not to mention it matches his style more than Soejima. I mean, even the P1 PSP art, which I want to say was Soejima redrawing Kaneko's art, doesn't look like Kaneko's style. If it was Soejima all along, we'd notice.--Otherarrow 13:32, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll take your word for it. Also I need these sprite deleted.
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Dionysus2.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Doppelganger.png
 * Already replaced them with better quality images. -- Zahlzeit 14:09, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 14:24, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

Sprite Deletion Request
-- Zahlzeit 16:22, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Smtifsfc_druj.gif
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:SMTifSFC_bushyasta.gif
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:259.jpg

-- Zahlzeit 02:05, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

New MoS: 05/04
Alright so I editted the MoS again as I said I would. I just fixed typos, streamlined some things, clarified, and weeded out redundant details that were stated more than once throughout the article. You can easily see what was changed/added by looking at the history but it wasn't really anything that we didn't know already.

The one thing that was added that is completely new is:
 * No fan art allowed except for the front page slider if there is no official art of acceptable quality and similar situations.

This was mostly in context of stuff like Devil Survivor 2 and IMAGINE, the former of which still has a stretched slider image. Is this alright? -- Zahlzeit 19:47, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it looks right to me. Good job.--Otherarrow 19:58, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

....
Looks like that just happened... Although I don't think it should have. Only reason I did that in the first place was because someone's been stalking me and other Nukapedia members around Wikia and raising a ruckus in chat and such because we won't allow weapon speculation there. I'll go see about getting that worked out on CC. Message 01:35, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Picture Deletion Request
Can we at least delete these on the Magatsu Izanagi page? Pretty low quality and if not for that at least the first one really deserves it since it has a logo from a streaming site.
 * File:Killed.png
 * File:Magatsu_Izanagi.png

-- Zahlzeit 03:52, May 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Deleted. UserGreatMara.pngge 03:57, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Catherine
How about we just delete all of the character pages, aside from Vincent's (since he appears in Persona 3), Trisha's (since it's merged with Ishtar), and make the actual Catherine (game) page more brief and succinct? I'm thinking routing the character links on that page to the Catherine Wiki since the pages on this wiki are very stubby as is and are better maintained on their wiki, of course aside from the occasional wacky character allusion trivia from the same editors that do it on this wiki. I would have preferred for them to merge into us but I don't really think they'd want that anyway.

I'll work on revamping the Catherine (game) page once you give me the go ahead, in response to this message. -- Zahlzeit 06:49, May 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I personally consider Catherine as part of the overall series, but if you think this is the best action, then go ahead.--Otherarrow 12:17, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion Queries

 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vincent_Brooks.jpg

-- Zahlzeit 02:59, May 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Erica_Anderson
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Tobias_%22Toby%22_Nebbins
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Boss
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Katherine_McBride
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Catherine_(Character)
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Voice_(Catherine)
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Orlando_Haddick
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Jonathan_%22Johnny%22_Ariga

Don't forget to delete the photos on the associated pages too. Thanks in advance. -- Zahlzeit 04:01, May 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:SMT_Fusion.gif

-- Zahlzeit 18:07, May 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Three_Wise_Men.jpg

-- Zahlzeit 21:59, May 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:YuuNarukamiP4A.JPG
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:675px-Screen_shot_2011-10-06_at_4_42_46_PM.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yu_remark_that_was_an_accident..jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yu_first_time_charge_of_his_Persona.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yu_using_the_persona_fusion_process.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yu_is_save_by_Yosuke.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Persona4_14_11.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yu_was_about_to_throw_Namatame_into_the_Tv_world.jpg

Horrible Quality, logos from streaming sites, taken from screenshots on the PSP and/or are now orphaned. -- Zahlzeit 21:51, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 21:58, May 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yu_arrive_at_Inaba.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Not_at_Night.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:persona4-15-yuu-chie-friendship-romance-conversation.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yu_stopped_by_Teddie_perventing_to_go_tv_world_alone.jpg

Same reasoning as the last ones plus some of these are kind of stupid and serve no purpose. -- Zahlzeit 13:03, May 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yukiko_resolve.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yukiko_comferred_Chie_after_Nanako_died.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:400px-Persona_4_Animation_Yukiko.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yukiko_hugged_her_other_self.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yukiko_fainted.png

Oh also if you're feeling bored I'd love it if you checked the Yu and Yukiko pages and compressed/paraphrased them some more. I couldn't get to all of it since I never played Persona 4 myself. Of course if you don't feel like it, that's fine too. Deleting these files is good enough for me. -- Zahlzeit 13:25, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. As for Narukami's page, I have just this to say: Is there any reason the section on the True Ending is the longest part of the plot segment? Kinda odd.--Otherarrow 13:32, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * No there isn't at all which is why I had to ask someone else to cut it down. In general the ending section seem too verbose. They should be a little more brief and have information that is more central and relevant to the protagonist himself. -- Zahlzeit 13:42, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll try to simplify it. Yukiko's page looks alright though.--Otherarrow 13:45, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Also Minako just removed this so delete it too. -- Zahlzeit 13:52, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. I trimmed the True Ending section on Narukami's page. I can get that one being a bit meaty, as the True Ending is probably the only part of the game where Narukami does things independent of the others. The other sections still need more meat though.--Otherarrow 13:57, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright thanks and yeah, I can't do anything about it right now so it's up to you and whoever else has played the game. -- Zahlzeit 14:01, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

"Spells" Pages
Shouldn't it be changed to "Skills"? It's more catch-all than spells since, even though the attacks are magic the users are not always mages/spell casters and are just summoning magic attacks through other means like Space Marine using his gun and et cetera. -- Zahlzeit 19:24, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it probably should. I've just been using "Spells" since that is how it was before I got here. Sorry. Do you think we should move?--Otherarrow 19:26, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah it should definitely be called skills, it's been called that way a lot in SMT games too rather than spells, such as Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 2. -- Zahlzeit 19:28, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey, not to sound pushy, but you want to help me out? There are a lot of pages to move and links to fix.--Otherarrow 19:32, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I moved all of them that I know of. I'm going to take a break...--Otherarrow 20:03, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I've been busy with work (in real life) nonstop. -- Zahlzeit 04:16, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, it's OK then. Sorry if I was coming off as pushy.--Otherarrow 04:31, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * You aren't, and no need to apologize every time you make honest requests, nothing wrong with it of course. -- Zahlzeit 05:02, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion Queries

 * Rise_Kujikawa/Rise/9999999999.jpg
 * File:9999999999.jpg

-- Zahlzeit 22:04, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * BLAMMO'd. UserGreatMara.pngge 23:08, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Videos
Does uploading videos the way I did upload it to the wiki, or does it stream externally? Was testing that out. -- Zahlzeit 03:20, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah OK. Still, I had no way of knowing. Just looked like irrelevent spam to me. I wouldn't know, as I don't use the video uploader thing (In fact, I kinda disapprove of videos on wikis in general, but that is nether here or there.) Sorry for any trouble.--Otherarrow 03:29, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't answer my question but figured out anyway, and I was going to ask you to delete it a second later anyway so nice job being on the ball. No need to apologize. -- Zahlzeit 04:05, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion Queries

 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Slider-Persona_2_Eternal_Punishment.png

-- Zahlzeit 16:25, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Soul Hackers Slider
Yeah, I've considered it and it crops badly and stuff among other things. Also it's not technically art of the remake either so there's that. For now we'll just leave it off until we get good art to use as the slider. -- Zahlzeit 18:08, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Re:Page names.
You're the one who change it without a reason. The beginning of the article you didn't say anything about the name but suddenly change the name without even writing a reason why. Also what's wrong with it? It sound acceptable to me why do you think its sloppy? I think the name you changed into is the sloppy one. --Cococrash11 23:44, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think anything that goes "(Word in Parenthesis)'s Whatever" looks sloppy and kinda bleck to say. And I wasn't the one who originally moved the page. If you think the current names are wrong, say so, but don't just move it back to the equally (if not more so) wrong names and except not to get any flack for it.--Otherarrow 00:00, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Deleting Unused Images
These are unused (orphaned) images that simply have no place, are overshadowed by other images that precedence, are duplicates, are fanart, are of horrible quality, are cropped from bad screenshots, are bad screenshots period, etc. Delete them at your own pace, no one is rushing you. Please use the tags on the appropriate images deleted to give me an idea of when you give you more to delete.

Sorry that I can't help you or do it myself. I'm still not an admin/bureaucrat and all. Thanks in advance. -- Zahlzeit 07:22, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd rather just remove the links. I'll post back here when I am done with a batch. Like now.--Otherarrow 15:53, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

That's cool too. -- Zahlzeit 21:27, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 21:52, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Alright here's some more. Some of these are dupes before you say anything. -- Zahlzeit 22:21, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 22:56, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 11:36, June 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 15:48, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Don't judge people by the language they use, seriously. The people I'm around all the time and myself use nigger all the time or we don't mind it nor do we really bat an eyelash to it and still contribute to the wiki to great extent (ex. BOXN, Yafusa, what not). -- Zahlzeit 14:24, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * ...Which is why I told him that I wouldn't block him for saying it the first time, I just said it was unaccaptable (I don't care if you otherwise decent guys use it. It's still a racial slur and it's still offensive). The fact that he ignored it and told me to eat shit kinda clued me in that his intentions weren't exactly benevolent. Did I make the wrong choice?--Otherarrow 14:28, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't want to say you were completely in the wrong but you might have. Like I said, the people I usually talk to on a daily basis talk like that and even I do and we don't really use the word "nigger" in a derogatory word as much as it might offend you. -- Zahlzeit 14:34, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Either way, I'm sorry if I stepped out of line.--Otherarrow 14:35, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's alright, you probably didn't know. Also remember what the legal burden of proof is. You can accuse all you want but you haven't got anything to back it up--I'm not saying you're wrong for accusing that article of being pasteurized but right now you're just talking out of your ass. -- Zahlzeit 14:38, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * ...You are probably right. I am probably just talking out my ass. Sorry for me being stupid as shit.--Otherarrow 14:42, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 15:15, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Why do the Gaian's wear buckets on their heads anyway? Is it a Japanese cultural thing I am not getting?--Otherarrow 15:27, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

They're not really buckets as much as really simple helmets of old. As for a Japanese cultural thing, I don't really know for sure. Finally got a Soul Hackers slider by the way. -- Zahlzeit 15:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. Thanks. Also, great, now Mary can stare at me when I visit this site as well. Kidding aside, I think it will work until we get a better image. (If we get one).--Otherarrow 15:31, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Shit, I fixed the link...not noticing it was the one you wanted me to delete. Sorry sorry. Derp on my end again.--Otherarrow 15:33, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 18:23, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 04:44, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 06:23, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 12:19, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 15:33, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 15:42, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 14:44, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 15:08, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Snowmanie's little requests
Hello. Seeing as you're the one who has taken it upon himself to clean up most refuge I leave behind I was wondering if you could delete a couple of more categories that I've left hollow? I've added them all here for now.

A question too: Do categories with no entries and without any created page for them ever stop giving themselves as suggestions when adding categories? I've been having this problem with several categories that no longer exsist (just try start typing them when adding Categories to a page). How does the whole suggested categories thing work anyway? There were several categories that I added yesterday that only started showing up as auto-fill today so do they need to be approved by an admin or something or is whatever "list" the auto-fill pulls suggestions from only updated a few times a day automatically? Thanks in advance for taking your time with me. -- Snowmanie 20:36, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't really know about the suggested links thing. I think it takes a while for the catche to clear and for the wiki to "catch up" with the deleted pages and added pages and such.--Otherarrow 21:57, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Category:Candidates_for_deletion -- Snowmanie 01:37, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you.--Otherarrow 01:43, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Prime Persona
Are you sure it's optional? I know mutation in general is but I remember the Prime Persona specifically were not optional if you fulfilled the requirements as you initiate a scene with Philemon. Actually mutation doesn't even fit at all since you keep both Persona unlike Jun's who actually do mutate, and are optional. -- Zahlzeit 00:55, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * According to what I've read on this very wiki, the mutations are basically a way to get the Prime Personas in the PSP version if you missed out on the proper way to get them. The mutation is another way to get them. I can't check this, since I've already returned the originals.--Otherarrow 00:58, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I have no idea now. -- Zahlzeit 01:05, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I hope you just read that Maia trivia because I just figured it out and it blew my mind. Also someone said that that never happened in the PSX version so.. take that as you will. -- Zahlzeit 01:12, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't read it as a thing in any guides, but I guess it sounds like a plausible thing to be added in the PSP version. Also, yeah, that trivia's pretty cool. More of Atlus showing their mythology smarts. --Bettafishrule2579 01:34, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion Query
-- Zahlzeit 03:55, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 14:55, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Also when you see any instances of "---" in the P2IS Persona templates, please replace with "-". -- Zahlzeit
 * Will do, thanks. Also, done.--Otherarrow 15:12, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 18:07, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 18:21, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Adachi
His Arcana IS Pierrot if I can recall, which is reversed Fool. It just transforms into Lust. -- Zahlzeit 02:07, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually I'm not even sure about that too, I'd personally want to leave it blank. -- Zahlzeit 02:17, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Pierrot isn't a real Arcana. The only Google results I could find for "Pierrot Arcana" just linked back to buzz about The Golden. (Meanwhile, most of the results for Lust Arcana was about the Crowley Strength.) I don't think it so much "transforms" into Lust as it was always Lust, but the game tries to "trick" you into thinking it was Pierrot, the same way the game tries to trick you into thinking Adachi is harmless, when he is actually the killer.--Otherarrow 02:53, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not but it's reversed fool to mirror the protagonist and there was actually a screenshot where it said that Pierrot actually transformed into Lust. That's INSANELY insightful though. -- Zahlzeit 03:08, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * My guess is that it is actually the MC's, and thus the players, viewpoint. At first, he saw Adachi as, well, a Fool. Maybe a literal fool, maybe just someone like himself. Then something happens during this particular rank and the MC/player (Well, anyone who hasn't played P4 before) sees a bit of who Adachi really is. I guess we won't know for sure until we actually know what happens in the link. I am curious, does it say in Engrish and all that it transformed, or is this what people are translating?--Otherarrow 03:30, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Translating which is why I haven't added it yet. Have to be skeptic of everything until there's hard proof, ja? -- Zahlzeit 03:43, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

Magatsu Izanagi Purseowner
Let me link you the images from a JPs Vita, it's legitimate information. Or should I put the pictures on his page? --BOXN 23:23, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * No reason you can't do both. Of course, the very concept that Magatsu Izanagi is fuseable seems kinda wrong to me somehow. Like if there was some way to fuse Reverse Apollo in Innocent Sin or something.--Otherarrow 00:47, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Pics are on his page, and I understand that, but Atlus is putting as much into that rehash as possible. --BOXN 01:45, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Lust Arcana sources
You wanted some source on them right? Here List for the Personae: http://i.imgur.com/1TmrN.jpg Dialogue where Pierrot changes into Lust (Desire is what the second purple Kanji reads): http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5ojwpbNYY1r3gyt0o2_1280.jpg

So that list of Personae was legitimate. Why am I even doing this. --BOXN 07:19, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. Thanks. Sorry for the trouble. I guess since these people just put up stuff without attempting to actually verify it, it just causes problems for the rest of us. Again, sorry for bothering you.--Otherarrow 14:36, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Picture deletion
Hello, can you please delete this?
 * No problem.--Otherarrow 17:05, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! (and sorry, I keep forgetting to do that for some reason) Couchbiker 17:52, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Yosuga was a Lawful path
It has elements of Chaos but ultimately Yosuga is a path that accepts God's power and authority. As such, it's ultimately a lawful route. The angels follow Chiaki for that reason. It's a hierarchy system based on principles of the strongest. All three 'Reason' endings were Lawful paths because you're creating a Millenium Kingdom like God wants you to. Only Neutral, Bad End, and True Demon Ending were against Law. The Truthful Knight 18:44, June 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Law isn't just about accepting God, otherwise, the Law path in SMT2 would be Chaotic, as it goes against God and his plans. Also note that the whole reason He puts world's through this cycle is in hopes that one day, someone will have a Reason that matches up with his views. (Shijima comes close, but that seems to be Law as in stillness as opposed to Law as in complete obedience to God). If they all were what he wants, then he wouldn't be doing it in the first place, as he would have gotten what he wanted with the first go round. Also note that none of the Reasons actually creates a Millennium Kingdom (Again, Shijima comes close). I think you've completely missed the point of the Reasons. The Reasons each represent the three alignments, Shijima for Law, Yosuga for Chaos and Musubi for Neutrality, at their very worst, and the fact that Law demons are siding with the Chaos Reason and vice versa is meant to show that, deep down, Law and Chaos aren't as different as Lucifer and God want you to believe. Also, "hierarchy system based on principles of the strongest" is one of the defining characteristics of the Chaos alignment.--Otherarrow 18:55, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * You're just insisting on your own interpretation of it. I'm saying it's Lawful because it's what God himself desires. They're all different ways to create a Millenium Kingdom. They're referred to as such. God doesn't care for any specific cycle, he just keeps re-introducing the Conception and re-creating the world in various ways throughout different worlds. Lucifer and Lady explain that to you. It's so the Lawful Gods they champion can have their views created. Musubi is in no way neutral. The ending itself depicts a grave and shows Isamu not caring about killing himself. My interpretation was that 'living in your own world' is no different than being dead to other people. That's not neutral. Neutral would be helping humanity like the Neutral ending where you restore the world. Yosuga may not seem lawful but it's basically like Yamato's ending of Devil Survivor 2. Lawful means for a chaotic conclusion. It is still, however, Lawful by nature. The Hierarchal system is also part of the Messian organization. It's even right there in the beginning explanation on the Wiki. I didn't even touch that. Chaos wouldn't have a hierarchy. That wouldn't be chaotic by virtue. The Angels joined Chiaki because despite the 'strongest are rulers' motto, it still requires a hierarchy and it still pursues Kagutsuchi's desire to reshape the world. Law denounces anything that goes against God such as SMT1 Law Hero's speech about 'Power without God is evil'. God, however, is always the focal reason despite the semantics of the Law argument. The Truthful Knight 19:29, June 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, Neutrality in several games, especially recently, is more about individuality and free choice than Balance (though both interpretations are about rejecting absolute Law or absolute Chaos, but for different reasons), and Musubi takes that to it's logical extreme, no one cares about anyone else because they are too busy trying to live in their own world. And Chaos is all about hierarchy. Ever seen the organization of Lucifer and the other demon lords like Beelzebub and Astaroth and such? Heck, in Nocturne itself, you have the hierarchy of Fiends and how the Demifiend fights his way up it. Again, one of the points of Nocturne, even if a subtle one is how the three alignments, when you get down to it, aren't that different, and when you actually look at it, Lucifer is just as much a hypocrite as YHVH. He preaches Chaos, yet enforces a Law-esque power structure among his ranks with himself at the top calling all the shots. The Neutral Ending in Nocturne as little to do with the Neutral Alignment itself, and is more about just returning things to the way they were, as a world of extreme Law, extreme Chaos, or extreme Neutrality would just lead to disaster. And the Millennium Kingdom is specifically, a thousand year kingdom where only God's chosen live, where everyone mindlessly worships God forever. None of the reasons in Nocturne actually do this. (Shijima comes close, though they have nothing to do with God and want a Law world for the sake of Nirvana) What Lucifer and the Lady in Black explains is that God's goal is to end up with a world where the Millennium Kingdom can be created, and that is why he puts world after world through the Conception in hopes that one day, someone will have a Reason that completely matches up with his ideals. The worlds created by the reasons in Nocturne would probably have to end and go through a new Conception too, as they aren't exactly what God wants. Also, you forget that at the point where he says that, the Law Hero was a radical who was seen as unworthy of being the Messiah in the Messians' eyes if you take the Law route (with the MC being preferred instead)--Otherarrow 19:44, June 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * And either way, I could use your "you are just insisting on your own interpretation" against you as well. You view all the Reasons as Law, despite one of them being blatantly Chaos based and the other being an extreme view of one of the forms of Neutrality, simply because of the method. I view them as the three alignments taken to the extreme, regardless of the method. However, since that is just out interpretations, it doesn't belong in the articles. (Well, the bit about the Reasons being based on the alignments is already in the articles, but denying that would be just...well, denial)--Otherarrow 19:57, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Musubi doesn't do that at all. Have you even seen or played through the ending? Isamu kills himself and leaves it to you. The endings themselves were just giving added character development and leaving the Kingdom created open to interpretation. Nowhere has Chaos specified Hierarchy. In fact, the demons in the Amala Labyrinth all state or imply they willingly follow Lucifer freely. We don't know what the reasons do because the game ends before the created reason takes shape. It's left to interpretation on purpose. The MC is always preferred in the organization he joins. And yes, people know they won't last. That's why the kingdoms are all only a thousand years. God's 'chosen' are whoever Kagutsuchi deems them to be in Nocturne after you beat him while upholding a Reason.

And no, I'm saying they're Law because they are Reason philosophies and that makes them Lawful by virtue. They're following God's plan (Kagutsuchi's in this case). Denial of all Reasons is Lucifer's or Neutral path. Lawful Angels are in Yosuga for that reason so while the philosophy might seem Chaotic, it's really not. Apart from that, Gozu-Tennoh's structure of how 'the strongest get privileges' is by a trial-based gladiator-like battle of strength. So it still follows a lawful process of an otherwise chaotic philosophy.

Edit: Whoops, I think I messed-up the page a bit. Sorry about that. >_>The Truthful Knight 20:13, June 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * And that is where we differ. You say it's Lawful simply because it follows God's Plan. Well, what choice do they have? That is how the Vortex World works. You seem to forget, the Reasons and their leaders aren't like the Demifiend, they don't have access to all the options that the Demifiend has, they don't have the Amala Labyrinth and Lucifer and his scheming or the Fiends and their little hierarchy to fight through. All they have are Kagutsuchi and the Reasons. The thing is about Alignment is that it isn't about who you follow, but what you believe. You can be Chaos and still oppose Lucifer, believing that you are mightier than him and thus deserve to rule over him, or be Law and oppose God, believing that He is unjust and deserves to be overthrown (AKA, the Law route in SMTII). I think that your "Oh, they are following God's PlanTM so they are instantly Law, even if the actual philosophy they preach is blatantly Chaos or Neutral inspired." is pretty narrow minded and, well, missing the point. And as for your arguing about Musubi, at one point you said Musubi is "living in your own world", a Reason of solitude and isolation then deny it when I explain how that is an exaggeration of one form of Neutrality, the Alignment of personal freedom to make your own choices, not to be swayed by Chaos or Law or any other outside powers. Everyone is too busy being individuals, living in their own individual worlds with their own individual lives unswayed by the opinions of others, but at the cost of they don't care about anyone else, because they aren't part of their world. That is pretty much Neutrality taken to a negative extreme. The Reasons are the three alignments taken to negative extremes. It doesn't matter if they are using God's Plan, Lucifer's Plan, Mara's Plan, Jack Frost's Plan, or whatever to reach their goal. And I still argue that the angels being with Yosuga isn't a sign that Yosuga is "truly" lawful, but that when you get right down to it, Law and Chaos tend to look rather similar when you bloat and exaggerate them. It's possible that the angels don't notice that they are following a Chaotic Reason for that reason. (oh ho ho) But this is getting nowhere, so, allow me to be blunt, stop responding to my page. As fun as it is to argue philosophy with you, we aren't getting anywhere.--Otherarrow 21:21, June 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem here seems to be that you're confusing SMT Law-Neutral-Chaos for Law-Neutral-Chaos of general series like Dungeons and Dragons roleplay. Following God was always the paramount point of all law-aligned demons and people throughout the SMT games. I also can infer that you did NOT see the Musubi ending or else you would understand exactly why it's not at all Neutral in terms of SMT neutrality. If you want to discuss this on my talk page instead then feel free. The Truthful Knight 03:49, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's because Law-Neutral-Chaos IS like general series like DnD. SMT just happens to associate most angels with Law and everyone else but Chaos but that doesn't mean Law = god and angels strictly. I mean Baphomet is a Law demon. -- Zahlzeit 03:58, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT (but I respect what Zahlzeit added, thanks): Except Law without God exists in SMT. That was pretty much the whole purpose of SMTII's Law route. You know, that thing I kept mentioning over and over and over? Satan, Gabriel and Aleph pretty much decide that God had crossed the line and had committed the ultimate sin, so they (well, Aleph and Satan, Gabriel just cheerleaders) take him out and created a world of Law without him (and the ending implies it is at least kinda decent. While SMT2 has a blatant Chaos bias, it at least makes the Law and Neutral endings at least somewhat happy endings). And you made a point of saying how the Nocturne Reason endings are left up to interpretation, then keep saying repeatably how my interpretation is wrong? Hypocrite much? And SMT neutrality isn't exactly a consistent thing. Sometimes it's Balance (OK, let's be honest, I can only think of SMT1 that treated this as such), some times it's free will to make your own choices and live how you will without demons or angels breathing down your neck. Musubi is a pretty much the later taken to the negative extreme. Everyone lives in their own little world, with no one to force them to live in any other way, at the cost of not caring about anyone else because no one else matters/is there. At least, that is how I interpreted the Reason. And talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You refuse to even acknowledge that someone may think differently than you. Not everyone will agree with you. Deal with it. And you continued to pester me with your BS after I basically told you to go away and leave me alone.--Otherarrow 04:13, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Sorry if that came off as rude, but, I'll be honest, and sorry if this comes off as offensive The Truthful Knight, but you are kinda starting to annoy me.--Otherarrow 04:35, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Instead of deleting peoples messages because you find them 'annoying', perhaps you should stop taking video game discussions so seriously and relax a little. The Truthful Knight 05:52, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * You are one to talk Mr. "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and I will continue to pester them about it until they admit that I am right". BTW, I personally think you are still incorrect. Freedom is one of the things about Chaos, but at its extreme, freedom is sacrificed so that the strong may rule over the weak. Survival of the fittest is at the heart of the Chaos way, and that means the weak will be wiped out so that the strong can live. There is no freedom in that. And, for the last time, stop pestering me over this crap. There is "taking a game so seriously" and then there is just being an annoying little twit about.--Otherarrow 05:57, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * ....Um, if you don't want an argument countered then just don't talk about the argument. You're basically saying "No, the game is like THIS and if you disagree with me then you're annoying me!". Jeez... I thought we were just having a discussion at random times like at a forum, not some flame war... The Truthful Knight 06:01, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Except I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. In fact, I tried to get across several times that I respected your opinion, but thought it was wrong and explained why. It wasn't that you disagreed with me that annoyed me. It's how you tried to force your view on me even after I pretty much said I didn't want to go on with it. It's as if you had to have the last word. I'll admit, I wasn't very happy to get a message from this Wiki, and instead of something important, it was just you continuing to argue.--Otherarrow 06:11, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Gallery
To add, putting it in chronological order helps so the reader can see a progression in terms of design. -- Zahlzeit 05:12, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess my main problem is with the Kyuuyaku stuff, as they tend to derive their designs from the MT/MTII designs, even when the games released around the same time use the SMT designs. (For example, Kyuuyaku Hecate seems to be more of a evolution of the MT1 design than following from the widely different SMT design.) On unrelated, pointless note, I kinda like Kyuuyaku Hecate...--Otherarrow 05:15, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

First Nekomata design
So this post (kinda NSFW) shows the progression of Nekomata's design. But what game did the first pic come from? I'm betting it was a really early one...--Bettafishrule2579 05:34, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I want to say SMT, as it doesn't match the rather different MTII Nekomata design. (Or her simple MT1 design, but Kaneko didn't come on until MTII)--Otherarrow 05:41, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was guessing SMT 1 too, but I kinda want to be sure... Also, should I name it "NekomataSMT1art" or something? --Bettafishrule2579 06:03, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * That will do I guess.--Otherarrow 06:13, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, cool. Thanks. :) --Bettafishrule2579 06:22, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 05:46, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 05:48, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Marie design
Sorry about the editing note, I thought you could read the playful tone in it, but I forgot that tone doesn't transcribe well over the internet. I just put that because you're always asked for source IIRC. --BOXN 21:31, June 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, no problem.--Otherarrow 21:42, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

Amaterasu
Yes, she was in NINE as a summonable demon and she actually had a 3D model of her original Kaneko design.. and then later they made Nocturne using a generic design instead of using the Kaneko design or even reusing the NINE model (why?). -- Zahlzeit 05:08, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 06:42, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Also, if they had a 3D Amaterasu model ready, why didn't they use it in Nocturne, instead using that strange guy Amaterasu thing? If it clashed with the style, couldn't they just remake it? Ah well.--Otherarrow 14:30, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I thought. I'd like to hear what crazy reason they have for not doing so. -- Zahlzeit
 * Done. Also, deleting all these images has taught me something: The Persona 4 anime looks kinda awful. Everything looks really moldy and doughy.--Otherarrow 15:24, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah the animation quality is horrible. -- Zahlzeit 17:03, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Otherarrow 18:03, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. I forgot her name but she keeps uploading the images to the wiki without even putting them on pages too. -- Zahlzeit 18:14, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Great, so we got someone who is reuploading images I already deleted, and then just doesn't do anything with them? Man, what the hell? Also, done.--Otherarrow 18:20, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

-- Zahlzeit 22:57, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Char05.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:RakshasaP4.PNG
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:AlilatP4.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:SylphP4.PNG
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Izanagi_3.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Jirayia.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Animation_Split_screen.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yosuke_recieving_tarot_card,_Magician.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:476557-persona_4_the_animation_02_large_04.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Persona_4_anime_chie.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Teddie%27s_empty_body.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Chie_got_lick_by_the_shadows.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yukiko_reject_Misuo_offering_to_go_on_the_date.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Chie_recived_tarot_card,_Cariot.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Chie_recevied_a_tarot_card,_Chariot.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:SandmanP4.PNG
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:AnubisP4.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Byakko2.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:DecarabiaP4.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:SraoshaP4.PNG
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:YatagarasuP4.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:TitanP4.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:PrincipalityP4.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:DigitalDevilSaga.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:P2EP_Maia.PNG
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Karma.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Heqet.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Orias.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:1067065-fools_super.jpg
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Yuki_jyorou.png
 * http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ogun.png